West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

I think folks are letting their imagination run wild without bothering to do any research or critical thinking (par for the course).

On whether his comment could be construed as tampering:He mentioned it in Indianapolis, the home of the NCAA, for Pete's sake!

He told his players that he was leaving, before any contract was signed. Is it tampering if a player says I want to go with you and informs the wlu AD of that decision? But the player also does not want to be contacted by any other coaches. So the AD does not enter their name into the portal immediately. The AD releases them from their scholarship. Once they are ready to go, the transfer portal will be updated very briefly with the player, if at all, for the player has no interest in the transfer marketplace bazaar. There is nothing nefarious going on here. No one at wlu is accusing him of tampering.

Of course, there is tampering in college sports. But don't paint every coach with that broad brush and impugn coach Howlett's ethics and morals from behind a keyboard with no knowledge of the actual situation. You obviously do not know him.

[boatcapt]

Mike lamberti has been named head coach at wlu.
https://hilltoppersports.com/news/20...all-coach.aspx

GREAT hire! Ton of continuity and experience as a player, assistant and HC in the WLU Style.

[Scrub]

I appreciate IUP24 raising an interesting and relevant conversation last week about whether Howlett's departure would/could cause WLU's athletics department to choose to pivot the program a bit. The context of NCAA athletics has certainly changed since Crutch invented his system.

It seems that the athletics department has made its statement--Crutchball continues.

I, for one, am happy about it.

Someone raised the question earlier about whether or not it's better to be consistently good & making the tourney or whether it's better to have up and down years with a real shot at a championship in those up years. It's a valid question, and several folks answered it that they'd rather win the big one just one time. I, on the other hand, am perfectly happy continuing to hang Conference Championship and Elite 8 banners. If the stars align and the big one is in sights, fantastic. But I just don't think I could go back to cheering for a team that is totally irrelevant in the down years. With Crutchball in place, complete irrelevance seems to be harder to come by, and I'm good with that.

[boatcapt]

I think folks are letting their imagination run wild without bothering to do any research or critical thinking (par for the course).

On whether his comment could be construed as tampering:He mentioned it in Indianapolis, the home of the NCAA, for Pete's sake!

He told his players that he was leaving, before any contract was signed. Is it tampering if a player says I want to go with you and informs the wlu AD of that decision? But the player also does not want to be contacted by any other coaches. So the AD does not enter their name into the portal immediately. The AD releases them from their scholarship. Once they are ready to go, the transfer portal will be updated very briefly with the player, if at all, for the player has no interest in the transfer marketplace bazaar. There is nothing nefarious going on here. No one at wlu is accusing him of tampering.

Of course, there is tampering in college sports. But don't paint every coach with that broad brush and impugn coach Howlett's ethics and morals from behind a keyboard with no knowledge of the actual situation. You obviously do not know him.

Seems like the speculation/imagination bug is going around.

If I was the AD and my Head Coach had taken a job at another school, no way that I would let them have a meeting with the team. NO good can come out of that for the school that I am the AD at. Best case senario is a lot of tears and hugs and statements about how good we could have been if we just staid together for one more year...WORST case is team leader X stands up and says "I don't know about you brothers, but I'M going down to the Compliance Office and entering the Portal right after this meeting...WHO'S WITH ME??!!"

Don't know for sure that a team meeting was held or if it was held, what Howlett said or what individual players may or may not have said. We can imagine that one was and we can also imagine that a player or two expressed a desire to "follow him" but that is what it is, imagination.

If I recall correctly, part of the reasoning for the Portal process was to give schools equal knowledge of and fair access to players wanting to transfer. I don't think the Compliance Officer (not the AD) has the ability to "pocket" the release of a player even if the player may want it. According to the NCAA, the process is:

1. Transfering student completes the Notice of Transfer process.
2. Transfering student provides it to the school Compliance Officer.
3. School Compliance Officer enters the information into the Transfer Portal.
4. Student receives a confirmation email from [email protected].

Until the Compliance Officer enters the student's information into the transfer portal, they are not in the transfer portal and any contact an opposing coach (or booster, or backer, or assistant coach, former coach, or agent, etc) has with the player advocating for the player to transfer to another school is tampering.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Seems like the speculation/imagination bug is going around.

Don't know for sure that a team meeting was held or if it was held, what Howlett said or what individual players may or may not have said. We can imagine that one was and we can also imagine that a player or two expressed a desire to "follow him" but that is what it is, imagination.

If I recall correctly, part of the reasoning for the Portal process was to give schools equal knowledge of and fair access to players wanting to transfer. I don't think the Compliance Officer (not the AD) has the ability to "pocket" the release of a player even if the player may want it. According to the NCAA, the process is:

1. Transfering student completes the Notice of Transfer process.
2. Transfering student provides it to the school Compliance Officer.
3. School Compliance Officer enters the information into the Transfer Portal.
4. Student receives a confirmation email from [email protected].

Until the Compliance Officer enters the student's information into the transfer portal, they are not in the transfer portal and any contact an opposing coach (or booster, or backer, or assistant coach, former coach, or agent, etc) has with the player advocating for the player to transfer to another school is tampering.

The interesting side show in all of this will be seeing who Lamberti can now convince to stay.

Essentially he and Ben are going after one another.

[TopperNation]

Mike lamberti has been named head coach at wlu.
https://hilltoppersports.com/news/20...all-coach.aspx

Okay, so we got a chance now, this is a great hire! Welcome back Mike. We keep the same system and recruit similar players that we always have. Now let's keep some of the talent we already have in house and get a player who can create his own shot when needed, lol. I know I know, that's not the WL way, but hey it's national title or bust now as I'm tired of traveling to Evansville and leaving empty handed.

[Columbuseer]

Okay, so we got a chance now, this is a great hire! Welcome back Mike. We keep the same system and recruit similar players that we always have. Now let's keep some of the talent we already have in house and get a player who can create his own shot when needed, lol. I know I know, that's not the WL way, but hey it's national title or bust now as I'm tired of traveling to Evansville and leaving empty handed.

Not as tired as the fans of teams that do not go to the Elite 8.
lol

[IUP24]

The NCAA compliance office investigated and imposes harsh penalties for player tampering. Should they do more? Yes. Do they find every example? Clearly NO. Would they find out about Howlet tampering with players currently on WLUs roster? Yet to be determined.

I didn't see Howlett's actual statement about wanting to bring in transfers to jump start the program, but if he specifically mentioned or even implied WLU transfers, that is a problem and is danger close (if not over) the tampering line.

They used to. They aren't anymore. Believe what you want.

It's laughable if you think they care about a guy at arguably the worst program in D1 basketball tampering to bring in 4-6 D2 transfers. I cannot believe you actually think they are investigating or caring about these things anymore.

[boatcapt]

The interesting side show in all of this will be seeing who Lamberti can now convince to stay.

Essentially he and Ben are going after one another.

And who from Coker follows Mike to the Hilltop.

[boatcapt]

They used to. They aren't anymore. Believe what you want.

It's laughable if you think they care about a guy at arguably the worst program in D1 basketball tampering to bring in 4-6 D2 transfers. I cannot believe you actually think they are investigating or caring about these things anymore.

Actually compliance investigations are up, way up, since the advent of the portal.

I can't believe you believe that compliance with rules is laughable. Wait a minute, that would explain a lot.

[Columbuseer]

Actually compliance investigations are up, way up, since the advent of the portal.

I can't believe you believe that compliance with rules is laughable. Wait a minute, that would explain a lot.

Maybe you missed it. Recently, the NCAA is out of the enforcement business at least at the power 4 level. Will leave it up to the conference.

No one has done the research to convince me that tampering has occurred due to a general statement by Ben. These coaches know the rules. He would not say it if it were not a done deal.

The p4 teams that tamper do it through intermediaries, such as AAU coaches, agents, nil guys etc. No coach gets within 10 feet of that business if there were any doubts.

That is why I think wlu already knows who is going to indy and wlu knows there is no tampering by Ben making a general statement about some wlu guys coming with him. Much ado about nothing.

[IUP24]

Actually compliance investigations are up, way up, since the advent of the portal.

I can't believe you believe that compliance with rules is laughable. Wait a minute, that would explain a lot.

I never once suggested that - AT ALL. So don’t insinuate my words or twist them to reach a conclusion you are grossly incorrect about.

I HATE what college sports are now. I 100% want these transfers to be clean and free of tampering. But they aren’t. MANY of them are not. And the black and white of tampering creates a situation where nearly every single transfer isn’t absent of tampering violations.

If a coach who left to take another job calls a player and says, “Come with me” when that player is not in the portal, that is tampering. You thinking that doesn’t happen every single day, or believing that the NCAA is going to care about that at all is insane.

The NCAA is a powerless governing body. I question if you’ve been following college sports over the last few years outside of Division 2 basketball. The second the NCAA attempts to restrict a transfer, or intervene in any capacity, the player or school takes them to court. And the NCAA loses nearly every time. If you believe within your convictions that the NCAA is going to be monitoring what goes over the next 30 days with WLU and IU Indy, that’s just a ridiculous notion and we simply will not find common ground in this discussion. There are players being purchased for hundreds of thousands of dollars off rosters when they had no intentions of leaving. Those players are up and leaving without warning to go elsewhere for more money. That’s actual tampering and the NCAA is powerless to intervene or stop those things from happening. We can agree that is a horrendous thing for college sports, but you just need to understand that’s the way this all works now. I hate it, but that’s what our reality is pertaining to this.

If you want to dig into the nuts and bolts of compliance departments’ investigations, sure, have at it. But I tend to think 95% that are reading this exchange probably believe that you’re insane for thinking the NCAA is cracking down on this stuff.

[IUP24]

Maybe you missed it. Recently, the NCAA is out of the enforcement business at least at the power 4 level. Will leave it up to the conference.

No one has done the research to convince me that tampering has occurred due to a statenent. These coaches know the rules.

The p4 teams that tamper do it through intermediaries, such as AAU coaches, agents, nil guys etc.

They’re all tampering. Even at this level. It’s all relative to the level you’re talking about. What tampering looks like in the bus leagues is different than Kentucky grabbing the star player from a mid-major. But it happens.

[Columbuseer]

They’re all tampering. Even at this level. It’s all relative to the level you’re talking about. What tampering looks like in the bus leagues is different than Kentucky grabbing the star player from a mid-major. But it happens.

I am not sure that all teams are tampering. But i agree it is out of control. Until athletes are employees with contracts, tampering will be out of control.

I am limiting the scope of my assertion to declare that Ben did not tamper by making a general statement that some wlu players may come to Indy. I think it was a done deal by all parties when he made that statement. It is just not on verbalcommits (which is not the official xfer portal database).

[boatcapt]

Maybe you missed it. Recently, the NCAA is out of the enforcement business at least at the power 4 level. Will leave it up to the conference.

No one has done the research to convince me that tampering has occurred due to a general statement by Ben. These coaches know the rules. He would not say it if it were not a done deal.

The p4 teams that tamper do it through intermediaries, such as AAU coaches, agents, nil guys etc. No coach gets within 10 feet of that business if there were any doubts.

That is why I think wlu already knows who is going to indy and wlu knows there is no tampering by Ben making a general statement about some wlu guys coming with him. Much ado about nothing.

Tampering is like pornography, everybody knows it when they see it...but some just dismiss it as not that big a deal. If you are the former coach at WLU and you say publicly that you are looking to bring several of your former players to jump start your new school, you have tampered. Now, will the NCAA investigate and discipline Howlett for it? Probably not. But that doesn't change the facts. It's the same as if I shop lift something from a store but don't get caught at it. Just because I didn't get caught doesn't mean I didn't shop lift.