West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Chuck Norris]

I find this all to be quite sad, really. Maybe in the long run this ends up better for WLU but it’s just the latest example of why people are caring less and less about college sports. WLU doesn’t deserve this. The other schools it has happened to don’t deserve it. Coaches keep their eyes open for opportunities just like people in any other profession. When leaders in companies move on, they often take a few people with them. I think it hits a lot different in college sports though.

Ben had everything he wanted at WLU and in my opinion is leaving for a worse job and I have a hunch it’s not going to end well. For all he had at WLU, his “thank you” is to walk away and steal current and incoming players for HIS benefit. He used WLU resources to find those players and develop them. Obviously kids are going to go where they want to but the coach has to say yes. To me, this is a pretty disrespectful and ungrateful way to leave a former employer. Call me old school I guess.

I think he gave plenty to WL as well. How many guys his age who were that successful immediately would’ve stayed there as long as he did? Departures of successful coaches at this level are going to be messy. Taking guys with you is just part of the deal, and with the particular circumstances at this school, what choice did he really have? They essentially had no team. I would certainly agree that of all jobs he could’ve left WL for this seems like an odd choice, but he made it.

West Liberty will be ok. They’ll obviously be left scrambling for this season and very well may take a step back (or may not). But they’re still running a system tailor made to win a lot of games at this level. And they’re building a network of young coaches that seemingly will let them run it as long as they want to.

[Columbuseer]

If the ATHLETE initiates the contact after being released from their scholarship, it is not tampering for the coach to respond. But that is not what we are talking about, we are talking about a coach inviting players from a specific team to come join his new team before those players have entered the portal. The only way a COACH can initiate contact is for the player to be in the portal.

I guess we will have to disagree. You have NO evidence that the athletes were not already in the portal or had not gotten released from wlu (which is a prerequisite in process for entering portal). Think about it. No coach, especially an intelligent and successful one, is going to commit an NCAA violation at a press conference within a week after accepting a great d1 opportunity.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I find this all to be quite sad, really. Maybe in the long run this ends up better for WLU but it’s just the latest example of why people are caring less and less about college sports. WLU doesn’t deserve this. The other schools it has happened to don’t deserve it. Coaches keep their eyes open for opportunities just like people in any other profession. When leaders in companies move on, they often take a few people with them. I think it hits a lot different in college sports though.

Ben had everything he wanted at WLU and in my opinion is leaving for a worse job and I have a hunch it’s not going to end well. For all he had at WLU, his “thank you” is to walk away and steal current and incoming players for HIS benefit. He used WLU resources to find those players and develop them. Obviously kids are going to go where they want to but the coach has to say yes. To me, this is a pretty disrespectful and ungrateful way to leave a former employer. Call me old school I guess.

This is a discussion in itself.

IU Indy is a terrible job. However, I think for implementing a system like his, it was the perfect opportunity. Take over a flea bag program and if it works, his stock will quickly go through the roof (and he'll be long gone from IU Indy). If it doesn't work, he'll have D2 jobs lining up for him.

A job like IU Indy, while D1, will afford him a little longer leash, too.

I think it was the right gamble for Ben. WL wasn't paying him much despite all his success. He should have been making double.

As for taking the players with him ... I can see both sides of it. It's not illegal. He's not breaking any rules (despite the above tampering argument). He's offering that 'D1' tag. Recall Holy Crutch took David Dennis with him when he went to Nova (and others followed over the years).

These are players Ben recruited. Despite what the NCAA propaganda wants us to believe, players pick the coach (not the school). So, I can fully understand them wanting to go with 'their' coach.

Obviously this isn't a unique situation. This same movie plays out numerous times every year.

[Columbuseer]

This is a discussion in itself.

IU Indy is a terrible job. However, I think for implementing a system like his, it was the perfect opportunity. Take over a flea bag program and if it works, his stock will quickly go through the roof (and he'll be long gone from IU Indy). If it doesn't work, he'll have D2 jobs lining up for him.

A job like IU Indy, while D1, will afford him a little longer leash, too.

I think it was the right gamble for Ben. WL wasn't paying him much despite all his success. He should have been making double.

As for taking the players with him ... I can see both sides of it. It's not illegal. He's not breaking any rules (despite the above tampering argument). He's offering that 'D1' tag. Recall Holy Crutch took David Dennis with him when he went to Nova (and others followed over the years).

These are players Ben recruited. Despite what the NCAA propaganda wants us to believe, players pick the coach (not the school). So, I can fully understand them wanting to go with 'their' coach.

Obviously this isn't a unique situation. This same movie plays out numerous times every year.

Great points.
clay guillozet also left with crutchfield and went to valdosta state ( still playing pro ball today in germany's 2nd highest league).

The NCAA finally woke up to reality and allowed players to xfer on a coaching change.

As you said, this was the right opportunity and time in his career for Ben to try "the system" at D1. Big recruiting area, metro location, elite university (they are part of Indiana University, an R1 institution), and they are building a new $80m arena for 2026.

[EyeoftheHawk]

I think he gave plenty to WL as well. How many guys his age who were that successful immediately would’ve stayed there as long as he did? Departures of successful coaches at this level are going to be messy. Taking guys with you is just part of the deal, and with the particular circumstances at this school, what choice did he really have? They essentially had no team. I would certainly agree that of all jobs he could’ve left WL for this seems like an odd choice, but he made it.

West Liberty will be ok. They’ll obviously be left scrambling for this season and very well may take a step back (or may not). But they’re still running a system tailor made to win a lot of games at this level. And they’re building a network of young coaches that seemingly will let them run it as long as they want to.

I have no problem with coaches moving on. As I wrote, most people look for opportunities to improve their careers and sometimes they may take people with them. And who doesn’t want a raise? Frankly, I wouldn’t go to work tomorrow if I didn’t have to. Some take risks and bet on themselves, which seems like what’s happening here. Betting on yourself is admirable. My point is just that it’s sad to see, and while he gave plenty to WL, it’s disappointing that he helped himself to some parting gifts on the way out the door. I’m not saying it’s unprecedented, illegal, or unexpected. It’s none of those things. It’s more of a rant about where we are in collegiate sports.

[boatcapt]

I guess we will have to disagree. You have NO evidence that the athletes were not already in the portal or had not gotten released from wlu (which is a prerequisite in process for entering portal). Think about it. No coach, especially an intelligent and successful one, is going to commit an NCAA violation at a press conference within a week after accepting a great d1 opportunity.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Given the spate of tampering, both investigated by the NCAA and through specific allegations levied by other coaches (with specific names given), it would not surprise me at all if a DII head coach who has NEVER changed to another team, didn't cross the line. As for extraordinary proof, all you need is his statement but perhaps it is hard to read with your colored glasses on.

[boatcapt]

I have no problem with coaches moving on. As I wrote, most people look for opportunities to improve their careers and sometimes they may take people with them. And who doesn’t want a raise? Frankly, I wouldn’t go to work tomorrow if I didn’t have to. Some take risks and bet on themselves, which seems like what’s happening here. Betting on yourself is admirable. My point is just that it’s sad to see, and while he gave plenty to WL, it’s disappointing that he helped himself to some parting gifts on the way out the door. I’m not saying it’s unprecedented, illegal, or unexpected. It’s none of those things. It’s more of a rant about where we are in collegiate sports.

When you take a "promotion" to work for another company, you can leave with class and dignity OR you can steal the database on your way out the door. All too often, coaches steal the database. And we praise them for doing it or as a minimum, say that everyone else does it so it must be OK.

Yep. Coaches speak about teamwork and commitment to the program and climbing the mountain together...and then steal all the candy when they leave. I put the players in the same boat, WLU brought them in, gave them schollys, educated them and gave them a home and the chance to play on one of the top NCAA DII programs in the nation. They reward the school by quitting and leaving the first chance they get. My dad used to say the first time you quit, it is HARD to do...After that, it becomes easy! Congratulations to the players that quit on WLU...It will be much easier to quit the next time things get too hard for you.

[Columbuseer]

I am optimistic about the transition to the Lamberti regime.
When Ben was hired, he got the keys to the Corvette. When Mike was hired at Coker, he got the keys to the Yugo.

Coker has < 900 undergrads. In his 2 years, he built a team that nearly made the NCAA, beat Lincoln Memorial, and was averaging close to 100 points a game. To me, that is the existence proof that he knows how to assess talent and recruit players to his team. Some of the shooters on his coker team are very comparable.

I have no worries, even after the transfers to Indy.
We will reload. Next man up!

[DownLow55]

When you take a "promotion" to work for another company, you can leave with class and dignity OR you can steal the database on your way out the door. All too often, coaches steal the database. And we praise them for doing it or as a minimum, say that everyone else does it so it must be OK.

Yep. Coaches speak about teamwork and commitment to the program and climbing the mountain together...and then steal all the candy when they leave. I put the players in the same boat, WLU brought them in, gave them schollys, educated them and gave them a home and the chance to play on one of the top NCAA DII programs in the nation. They reward the school by quitting and leaving the first chance they get. My dad used to say the first time you quit, it is HARD to do...After that, it becomes easy! Congratulations to the players that quit on WLU...It will be much easier to quit the next time things get too hard for you.

So what will the players that come from Coker be called quitters or transfers?

[boatcapt]

So what will the players that come from Coker be called quitters or transfers?

None have transfered yet buuuttt, I would call them quitters.

Difference at least this far is Mike hasn't tried to tamper with the players at Coker.

[boatcapt]

I am optimistic about the transition to the Lamberti regime.
When Ben was hired, he got the keys to the Corvette. When Mike was hired at Coker, he got the keys to the Yugo.

Coker has < 900 undergrads. In his 2 years, he built a team that nearly made the NCAA, beat Lincoln Memorial, and was averaging close to 100 points a game. To me, that is the existence proof that he knows how to assess talent and recruit players to his team. Some of the shooters on his coker team are very comparable.

I have no worries, even after the transfers to Indy.
We will reload. Next man up!

Well, at least he has practical experience coming in LATE and culling the portal after the top (and second) tier transfers are gone. The redshirts, incoming freshmen and transfers are going to need to produce big time cause we have holes!

Howlet got a Corvette as his first HC gig but left Mike an 85 Chevy!

[IUP24]

None have transfered yet buuuttt, I would call them quitters.

Difference at least this far is Mike hasn't tried to tamper with the players at Coker.

You have zero proof that he has or hasn't.

[D2Basketball10610]

Well, at least he has practical experience coming in LATE and culling the portal after the top (and second) tier transfers are gone. The redshirts, incoming freshmen and transfers are going to need to produce big time cause we have holes!

Howlet got a Corvette as his first HC gig but left Mike an 85 Chevy!

So Crutch taking David Dennis (one of the best players in the country) is ok? Howlett also had 2 studs transfer out in Griffin and Guillozet while losing Hoehn and Grossenbacher to graduation. The "corvette" is the system. Whether we like it or not transferring is here to stay either adapt or lose.

[boatcapt]

You have zero proof that he has or hasn't.

I wasn't aware that proof was required on a message board! As the saying goes, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Howlett quacked to his former players and they some came.

[boatcapt]

So Crutch taking David Dennis (one of the best players in the country) is ok? Howlett also had 2 studs transfer out in Griffin and Guillozet while losing Hoehn and Grossenbacher to graduation. The "corvette" is the system. Whether we like it or not transferring is here to stay either adapt or lose.

I didn't say transferring wasn't here. What I'm saying is that there is a policy and process to it and in that process, a former coach reaching out to his former players before they have entered the portal is a violation. Just because coaches do it and get away with it and/or people dismiss it as no big deal, doesn't make it not a violation