West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Who starts first game against Cheney state? guys could move up in Feb based on play.
Group 1
Monterosa
Arnold
French
Smith
Meininger
Allen
Bolon
Group 2
Primmer
Saben
Moore

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Headed into the season I see the depth chart as:

PG Arnold, Dyer
SG Monteroso, French, Primmer
SG Smith, Allen
F Meininger, Moore, Ochoa
SF Griffin, Bolton

I see Saben and Yoakum redshirting.

First 15 games the 12 players minus Monteroso will get roughly the same playing time. After that the bench will be trimmed to 9 or 10 players with the starters averaging 25 to 30 minutes a game and the next 4 or 5 averaging 10 to 15 per game.

I think Arnold is a capable replacement for Dennis. Maybe not as good as he was but certainly not as bad as some might think. On a per minute basis, Arnold scores at a .41 pt/min pace and got .11 ast/min last season. Dennis scored at a .43 pt/min and got .18 ast/min last season. Give Arnold the same minutes as Dennis and he would have averaged 13.3 PPG and 3.8 Ast/g...for comparison Dennis averaged 13.9 PPG and 6 Ast/g. Critical question I have is weather Dyer is capable of 80-100 assists and 8 to 9 PPG as Arnolds principle back up.

I feel really good about Monteroso! I think he will have a huge season. For the first time ever he will be going into a basketball season well rested and I think that will show.

Smith I feel comfortable with as well. I look to him to be the do everything guy that the most successful WLU teams seem to always have.

Griffin I'm a little unsure of. Had VERY low expecations of him last year and he exceded them by a mile. Was it just a really good season or did we underestimate him?

Meininger needs to understand his role and do it. He is our lone "big man" and needs to play that role to a fault. Not saying he should NEVER take a 3 try but if he's taking more than one a game...that's tooooo many. Clean the offensive and defensive glass, play strong inside D and get blocks and putbacks.

The real problem is depth. Only players off the bench with game experience are French and Primmer. French needs to become the consistent scorer we have seen hints of over his WLU career and Primmer needs to flat step it up.

Of the rookies, I think Dyer will have a big year and I think Allen and Moore could exceed expectations. For WLU to be truly be successful...they will need to!!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Great analysis. I think monterosa could be all region at least. Allen and Esa Ahmad at wvu were d1 players of yr in Ohio in 2014 so he could push to start after 15 games if he can adjust. Last year Griffin really stepped up after he cut his hair (the reverse samson effect lol). If he continues to crash the boards, I could see him playing F position in some situations where you want max slashers on court to get other team in foul trouble.
Bolon wearing segers number and is a deadly 3pt shooter.
Arnold is much better outside shooter than Dennis. Dennis had better handles but some of that skill was overkill. Key is whether Arnold has basketball iq of Dennis. I really like Arnold on defense chasing down guys from behind. Great speed.
As you said, a lot of unknowns from a depth perspective.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Outside of PG and maybe WLU's version of a "big", WLU really has no positions...at least none I can identify! Seems that all WLU players have a core skill set (deadly shooter, good ball handler, strong D, quick and will run the floor). Beyond that core, each player has additional skills that complment each other...Monteroso is a high flying slasher...French has a quick release and can drain 3's on the move...Arnold is cat quick and can blow by the best of them to get his shot...Smith does everthing well but is not the best at any one thing...etc.

Crutch was very adept at getting the right mix of skills on the court and maybe more importantly recognizing in game when it was time for a change. Howlett has studied at Crutch's arm for many years so he understands how to manage a game the "WLU way"...The question is can he do it now that he is at the helm. Until he proves he can, I think the jury is out on him. He's probably the best equipped to do it and I think he will be up to the task but I just might have my "fan goggles" on!!!

[cavsfan94]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Headed into the season I see the depth chart as:

PG Arnold, Dyer
SG Monteroso, French, Primmer
SG Smith, Allen
F Meininger, Moore, Ochoa
SF Griffin, Bolton

I see Saben and Yoakum redshirting.

First 15 games the 12 players minus Monteroso will get roughly the same playing time. After that the bench will be trimmed to 9 or 10 players with the starters averaging 25 to 30 minutes a game and the next 4 or 5 averaging 10 to 15 per game.

I think Arnold is a capable replacement for Dennis. Maybe not as good as he was but certainly not as bad as some might think. On a per minute basis, Arnold scores at a .41 pt/min pace and got .11 ast/min last season. Dennis scored at a .43 pt/min and got .18 ast/min last season. Give Arnold the same minutes as Dennis and he would have averaged 13.3 PPG and 3.8 Ast/g...for comparison Dennis averaged 13.9 PPG and 6 Ast/g. Critical question I have is weather Dyer is capable of 80-100 assists and 8 to 9 PPG as Arnolds principle back up.

I feel really good about Monteroso! I think he will have a huge season. For the first time ever he will be going into a basketball season well rested and I think that will show.

Smith I feel comfortable with as well. I look to him to be the do everything guy that the most successful WLU teams seem to always have.

Griffin I'm a little unsure of. Had VERY low expecations of him last year and he exceded them by a mile. Was it just a really good season or did we underestimate him?

Meininger needs to understand his role and do it. He is our lone "big man" and needs to play that role to a fault. Not saying he should NEVER take a 3 try but if he's taking more than one a game...that's tooooo many. Clean the offensive and defensive glass, play strong inside D and get blocks and putbacks.

The real problem is depth. Only players off the bench with game experience are French and Primmer. French needs to become the consistent scorer we have seen hints of over his WLU career and Primmer needs to flat step it up.

Of the rookies, I think Dyer will have a big year and I think Allen and Moore could exceed expectations. For WLU to be truly be successful...they will need to!!

I thought Monteroso was a senior last year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was also a football player last year and the MEC football stats page from the past season had him as a senior.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

I thought Monteroso was a senior last year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was also a football player last year and the MEC football stats page from the past season had him as a senior.

He had 1 year of football eligibility remaining but had 2 years of basketball eligibility.

[IUP Extra Mile]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

He had 1 year of football eligibility remaining but had 2 years of basketball eligibility.

That was my exact understanding

[MrAugustana]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good points. I would recommend very harsh financial penalties for tampering by a school to lure someone away. Fundamental philosophical question is whose rights have precedence, the individual or the program. After all football is just an extracurricular activity that is not relevant to academic achievement of the student which is the mission of higher education.
I share your concern about the rich getting richer in the Clemson example. But if that was really a primary concern of NCAA then they would restrict coaches salaries, penalize coaches who are poached by other schools and stop the insane facilities arms race. Imho the real intent of the NCAA is protecting the rich not the poor (Pitt) and the revenue stream by keeping 2nd string Clemson players from transferring to Pitt and jeopardizing their nc chances. Only 24 programs are not losing money. Everyone has freedom but the players. Try to major in medicine or engineering. You will get push back to steer u toward a more football friendly major. Football needs take precedence over academics.

I'd be curious to know the statistics of the number of kids who would never even be in higher education if they weren't able to do it through a sports scholarship of some nature. Sure there are probably hundreds who would've just gone to college like the rest of the non-athletes enrolled at colleges/universities right now, but I would be willing to bet there are also hundreds (if not thousands) who would never have a chance to attend college without a scholarship (or wouldn't go to college if they weren't going to play sports). So to say sports are just "an extracurricular activity that is not relevant to academic achievement of the student" is a bit of an overstatement/generalization.

Unless I misunderstood your intent with that comment.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Same question about the Sousaphone player who dots the I at Ohio State football games. Wonder if he would be in college without a music scholly??
I also wonder if band programs at colleges are money makers for schools or money losers? I mean, athletic programs get criticized for "costing the school money"...maybe we should ask if other extracurricular activities cost schools money as well??

[Sportsnut]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Everything in colleges and universities cost a lot of money! Most academics are liberials who love to spend other peoples money!

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Good point to clarify.
Athletic scholarships are a financial vehicle for students to attend college. There is no needs-based or academic achievement means test (rich/poor kid can get a full ride football scholarship and/or very, very average/brilliant student can get a full ride - I am excluding the Ivy League). The only criteria is the ability to play a sport.
Excluding the 1% who play in NFL the time spent in football (some estimate it equivalent to a 35 hr a week job, except the physical beating makes it much more demanding), it does not contribute to academic achievement. It DOES contribute to affordability, but the people chosen may not be the ones who can statistically provide the greatest ROI to society outside of football revenue. (Don't get me started on the exploitation of players LOL). It would be good to see the relative proportion of kids who get full rides (tuition, room and board, etc.) on academic scholarships versus athletic scholarships. Based on personal experience from 10 years ago, a kid with a 4+ GPA (college courses in high school) might get half tuition paid for at Ohio State. My personal experience is that academic full rides are very very rare. For example, Batelle Scholarship at Ohio State is a full ride, but I think there are maybe 1 or 2 per year.

[boatcapt]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

May not be this way across the country, but at public schools in WV, MD and I believe PA, athletic schollys are privately funded (donations).

Concerning ROI for an athletic scholly recipient, I think it has a huge ROI for that person and his family. Isn't that what public colleges should be doing? Providing an education that ultimately improves the career outlooks of the recipients.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Supply and Demand.

Recall the movie The Program ... "When was the last time 85,000 people showed up to see a **** chemistry experiment?"

When you get in to Ohio State ... whole different animal of conversation there. I group Buckeye fans and Steelers fans in about the same cloth.

Ohio State can get the best football players in the country. That costs money. Lots of it. In turn, they collectively make the university a fortune. It's worth the investment. Johnny 4.0 may be a 'can't miss' physics major ... but by and large nobody cares. How many full-time professors does OSU employ to equal the yearly salary of Urban Meyer? Round numbers ... say they make $100k each ... and Urban makes about $7M. You can do the math.

When you get to that elite level of college football and have to keep elite level boosters happy ... you better win. Is it fair that knuckleheads with a 4.4 forty but a 1.85 GPA get a full ride? When OSU makes the weekly deposit at its vault ... they probably think so.

I hate to even mention this but if you think money and football glory didn't play a role in the Penn State debacle .... souls were sold for the betterment of that program.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

Agree that anyone (athlete or non-athlete) who receives this windfall to totally free college is POSSIBLY better off. The difference is the academic motivation and time available to devote to academics.
Unfortunately, many kids do not graduate or are steered to deadend majors to preserve eligibility when a great trade school would provide a better ROI.
What about the poor kid with a 3.5 who wants to major in Computer Science who gets no assistance and needs it? Who would have the greater ROI to society as a whole?
The rapid consumption of jobs by androids will cause many of these jobs to disappear and the ROI will become even more tenuous.

[Columbuseer]

Re: West Liberty Hilltopper Basketball

You nailed it. Supply and demand. As long we fans continue to worship sports over academics, nothing will change.
Friends asked me the favorite sport of folks in Taiwan. Only half-jokingly, I replied, "studying".
Japanese kids go 240 days a year to school, while the USA goes 180 days, like the kids still need to work on the farm in the summer.
Ultimately, the wealth of a country is tied to the intellectual achievement of its citizens.
One reason I like West Lib is that the basketball roster averaged 3.3 GPA. Crutch said he never had the need to get tutors.
Refreshing. Nova Southeastern had a 3.2 GPA for ALL athletes, so Crutch will fit right in there.