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  • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


    Joe beat Bowie in 17-18. The only time they've lost to Bowie was in 15-16 (after Joe was up 23 at halftime). That's still one of the oddest games I've ever seen.

    They lost to Findlay and Ferris State to open the season out in Indianapolis and then to Virginia State in a nail-biter a couple weeks later. That wasn't one of Joe's better teams. Ferris State beat IUP by 2 points -- and then went on to win the national title that season. So, they were obviously pretty good.

    Hard to say how he'll schedule this year. We know Virginia State is one of the games. But, in crossover this year they play at Kutztown and at West Chester, and host Millersville, Shepherd and Shippensburg. So, that's a tough crossover slate this season. He probably doesn't need to take many more 'tough' games and he'll still have a strong SOS.
    Hummm...When I observed that WLU plays Fairmont, UC and WVS for two games every year so they don't really need to schedule tough OOC games to prepare for March, I was told that in-conference games didn't count. Only way to truly be good in March was to schedule tough OOC games.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
      Hummm...When I observed that WLU plays Fairmont, UC and WVS for two games every year so they don't really need to schedule tough OOC games to prepare for March, I was told that in-conference games didn't count. Only way to truly be good in March was to schedule tough OOC games.
      I freely admit that I don't know the formula for inclusion into the regionals. However, every conference seems to claim the title of the toughest, most competitive conference. So OOC games against other conferences in your region would seem to give a team some added credibility (provided you win). It might be a hedge if you lose a game or two in conference.

      In the regional broadcast, one of the announcers said it was a shame that playing nearby teams out of the region does not not benefit in the regional ranking. This was in reference to the potential great rivalries between WLU and Findlay, Walsh, Malone, etc.

      I think Daemen is a return trip from the away game two years ago. Based on the earlier broadcaster's comment, does that mean that a win over Daemen does not help us in the regional ranking, but a loss would hurt us with respect to the W-L record?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

        I freely admit that I don't know the formula for inclusion into the regionals. However, every conference seems to claim the title of the toughest, most competitive conference. So OOC games against other conferences in your region would seem to give a team some added credibility (provided you win). It might be a hedge if you lose a game or two in conference.

        In the regional broadcast, one of the announcers said it was a shame that playing nearby teams out of the region does not not benefit in the regional ranking. This was in reference to the potential great rivalries between WLU and Findlay, Walsh, Malone, etc.

        I think Daemen is a return trip from the away game two years ago. Based on the earlier broadcaster's comment, does that mean that a win over Daemen does not help us in the regional ranking, but a loss would hurt us with respect to the W-L record?
        Anyone that says they know the "formula" is full of cr*p! There are a set of selection criteria that the regional selection committee "considers" but no direction on how they relate to each other. Net effect is that it gives the committee the "flexability" to make almost any selection and seeding decision they want to.

        As for playing tough OOC opponents giving a team enhanced credibility, sure...provided you win the game. While there are people who seem to disagree, I believe W/L record is the primary consideration (within reason). While the SOS boost a team would get for playing, but losing to, a really good OOC team may offset this a bit, there is still more "value" in winning.

        I'm sure WLU will put forth the best effort they are capable of in these games, but these four games are at best pick-um games. As such, there is a very real chance they lose them. Let's for a moment consider the prospect of them going 2-2 in those games and then loosing the 2-3 in-conference games that they typically lose in a given season. With 5 regular season losses and a regular season record of 23-5, you ain't talking about the #1 seed. Now say you ratcheted the difficult down a notch to four decent teams, but ones that WLU should beat, and you are talking about worst case record probably being 25-3 and you are in the discussion for the #1 seed and the home court that equates to. And beyond that, were you were ranked has a direct impact on whom you play in the E8...Want to avoid NW this coming season? Get a higher ranking. A 5-6 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a pretty good chance of playing NW in the E8 game...3-4 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a better chance of avoiding that.

        Concerning WLU playing games v teams from Ohio, I THINK that they do count as "in-region." As I recall, there are two things that make this so. First, as the MEC has a team in Ohio, any team from Ohio counts as in-region. I also believe that the NCAA considers a game between two schools from states that border each other to be in-region. I could be off base on this but I recall a discussion on this from a number of years ago.
        Last edited by boatcapt; 07-03-2021, 09:45 AM.

        Comment


        • UC is loaded in the MEC. according to verbalcommits they got a d1 transfer in Kobey Lam who is really good.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
            Anyone that says they know the "formula" is full of cr*p! There are a set of selection criteria that the regional selection committee "considers" but no direction on how they relate to each other. Net effect is that it gives the committee the "flexability" to make almost any selection and seeding decision they want to.

            As for playing tough OOC opponents giving a team enhanced credibility, sure...provided you win the game. While there are people who seem to disagree, I believe W/L record is the primary consideration (within reason). While the SOS boost a team would get for playing, but losing to, a really good OOC team may offset this a bit, there is still more "value" in winning.

            I'm sure WLU will put forth the best effort they are capable of in these games, but these four games are at best pick-um games. As such, there is a very real chance they lose them. Let's for a moment consider the prospect of them going 2-2 in those games and then loosing the 2-3 in-conference games that they typically lose in a given season. With 5 regular season losses and a regular season record of 23-5, you ain't talking about the #1 seed. Now say you ratcheted the difficult down a notch to four decent teams, but ones that WLU should beat, and you are talking about worst case record probably being 25-3 and you are in the discussion for the #1 seed and the home court that equates to. And beyond that, were you were ranked has a direct impact on whom you play in the E8...Want to avoid NW this coming season? Get a higher ranking. A 5-6 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a pretty good chance of playing NW in the E8 game...3-4 loss Atlantic Regional Champ WLU team has a better chance of avoiding that.

            Concerning WLU playing games v teams from Ohio, I THINK that they do count as "in-region." As I recall, there are two things that make this so. First, as the MEC has a team in Ohio, any team from Ohio counts as in-region. I also believe that the NCAA considers a game between two schools from states that border each other to be in-region. I could be off base on this but I recall a discussion on this from a number of years ago.

            Comment


            • If the state boarders your conference it counts. So, MEC games against Findlay, etc., certainly would count.

              When IUP played -- and lost -- to that undefeated Ferris State team 5-6 years ago, the loss obviously counts on the record but it doesn't factor in to the region-specific metrics.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                If the state boarders your conference it counts. So, MEC games against Findlay, etc., certainly would count.

                When IUP played -- and lost -- to that undefeated Ferris State team 5-6 years ago, the loss obviously counts on the record but it doesn't factor in to the region-specific metrics.
                Good info thanks. I remember that ferris state team. They gave #2 ranked michigan state a really tough exhibition game, losing 80-72.

                https://www.mlive.com/spartans


                I found the mandatory criteria for regional basketball rankings for D2 from 2015. Unless it has changed,, it confirms that bordering states count as in region games and the analyst was misinformed.
                They infer some optional criteria to other articles. Playing ranked teams and winning teams are factors.

                https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...UjTEKFIQ0vyy1g



                Last edited by Columbuseer; 07-06-2021, 09:11 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                  Good info thanks. I remember that ferris state team. They gave #2 ranked michigan state a really tough exhibition game, losing 80-72.

                  https://www.mlive.com/spartans


                  I found the mandatory criteria for regional basketball rankings for D2 from 2015. Unless it has changed,, it confirms that bordering states count as in region games and the analyst was misinformed.
                  They infer some optional criteria to other articles. Playing ranked teams and winning teams are factors.

                  https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...UjTEKFIQ0vyy1g


                  IUP had that game won with 20 seconds to go ... and lost. Bitter loss.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                    If the state boarders your conference it counts. So, MEC games against Findlay, etc., certainly would count.

                    When IUP played -- and lost -- to that undefeated Ferris State team 5-6 years ago, the loss obviously counts on the record but it doesn't factor in to the region-specific metrics.
                    I don't believe that is right. I thought the rule was if a state bordered a state in your region....not your conference....that it counts as an in-region contest. So Ferris should have counted as in-region.

                    Comment


                    • Watched walsh game replay to learn more about cmont Montague, 2nd team gmac point guard.
                      intelligent, unselfish player who can finish at the rim. I was really impressed by his defense. He may fill the gap left by dyer's departure. Add him to malik and with Patrick greatly improving on defense, we should be OK in half court defense against good guards.

                      Comment


                      • I had the order wrong on the players on offensive rebounding % in a previous post.
                        Here are the updated, corrected rankings

                        FYI



                        Topic: Offensive Rebound % for WLU Players 20-21 seasonrd in D1 for 2020-2021 season!
                        1 Houston 40.2%
                        2 N Carolina 39.5%
                        3 CS Bakersfld 37.1%
                        Team Offensive Rebounding Percentage Formula
                        • ORB% - Offensive Rebound Percentage (available since the 1970-71 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * (ORB * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm ORB + Opp DRB)). Offensive rebound percentage is an estimate of the percentage of available offensive rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor.
                        WEST Lib Stats 2020-2021 Offensive rebound % Rating
                        Marlon Moore Jr 11.54% Outstanding
                        Elijah Watson 10.03% Outstanding
                        Ben Sarson 9.82% Outstanding
                        owen hazelbaker 7.73% Outstanding
                        Will yoakum 7.68% Outstanding
                        Bryce butler 7.18% Outstanding
                        Dalton bolon 7.03% Outstanding
                        Patrick Robinson III 6.61% Outstanding
                        Malik mckinney 4.35%
                        Luke dyer 3.36%
                        Viktor Kovacevi? (Quincy Stats) 2.80%
                        Zach rasile 2.32%
                        Cmont Montague (Walsh stats) 1.20%
                        Garrett Denbow (UC stats 2019-20) 1.00%
                        Evan Conley 0

                        Comment


                        • At first glance, it would appear that Cmont has some big shoes to fill at the pg position, if one just looks at the stats below. However, the difference in the style between Walsh and WLU plays a huge role. From looking at his games, I think Cmont could thrive at wlu, with greatly improved stats as a result. It illustrates how stat comparisons can be misleading.

                          stat ranking value ranking value
                          luke luke cmont cmont
                          steals per game 19 2.22 216 1.31
                          assist turnover ratio 4 3.39 150 1.41
                          assists per gane 82 4.1 195 3
                          effective fg % 53.20% 49.20%
                          true shot % 52.50% 52.30%
                          block % 0.72% 0.20%
                          offensive rebounding % 3.36% 1.20%

                          Comment


                          • FYI
                            from hilltoppersports.com on new players with comments from Coach Howlett.


                            West Liberty University head men's basketball coach Ben Howlett has reloaded his 2021-22 roster with an impressive mix of high school talent and collegiate transfers as the Black and Gold set their sights on another deep post-season run.
                            Fresh off its sixth Atlantic Region title and NCAA Division II Elite Eight berth in the past decade, the Hilltoppers' current streak of 12 consecutive NCAA Division II Tournament bids is the longest in the nation and Howlett can't wait to see his six newcomers join the party.
                            "With three impressive freshmen and three more guys transferring in from other schools, this is a really deep and talented group," Howlett said. "There's always a transition period as guys adjust to playing our brand of basketball but when we get them up to speed and add them to the players we have coming back, we should be able to put a pretty talented team on the floor this season."
                            The Hilltopper transfers are
                            Quincy (Ill.) transfer Viktor Kovacevic, a 6-8 wing from Belgrade, Serbia;

                            Walsh (Ohio) transfer Christian Montague, a 6-1 point guard from Dayton, Ohio

                            and Charleston transfer Garrett Denbow, a 6-5 guard from Ashland, Ohio.

                            All three are taking advantage of the NCAA's 2020-21 COVID eligibility waiver. Kovacevic will be playing his final year of college ball while Montague and Denbow have three years left to play.

                            Joining the Black and Gold from the high school ranks are
                            Aiden Satterfield, a 6-7 wing from Charleston, W.Va. and Charleston Catholic High School;

                            Dante Spadafora, a 6-0 point guard from Coraopolis, Pa. and Our Lady of Sacred Heart High School;

                            and Austin Webb, a 6-3 shooting guard from South Point, Ohio and South Point High School.

                            Following are brief capsules on each of the WLU additions along with insights from Coach Howlett:
                            VIKTOR KOVACEVIC was a two-year starter at Quincy after an impressive two seasons at Manhattan (N.Y.) CC. Kovacevic averaged 15.3 ppg. and 5.7 rpg. last season while shooting 56 percent from the floor and 49 percent from the 3-point arc. He poured in a career-high 34 points in an overtime loss at eventual regional champion and NCAA Division II Elite Eight qualifier Truman State (Mo.).
                            Howlett says: "Viktor has the ability to play on the perimeter and in the paint plus he has a great understanding of the game. He's an excellent passer who can also put the ball on the floor and get to the rim, all of which makes him a great fit for our system."
                            CHRISTIAN MONTAGUE was a two-year starter who earned All-G-MAC honors on the point for the Cavaliers. He scored more than 600 points with 83 3-pointers at Walsh while ranking among the G-MAC's Top 10 in assists and steals per game. Montague averaged 12.9 ppg. over his last two years and had four games with 20 or more points during the abbreviated 2020-21 campaign.
                            Howlett says: "As an All-Conference player in the G-MAC, Christian has been successful at our level. He's a calm, mature point guard who can score but also get others involved. In addition, he is an elite defender who will be a force in our pressure defense. Extremely happy to bring Christian on board."
                            GARRETT DENBOW battled through injuries for much of his time at Charleston but showed plenty of promise as a true freshman when he shot 44 percent from the 3-point line with multiple double-figure scoring games, highlighted by a career-high 13 points in a win against Wheeling.
                            Howlett says: "We recruited Garrett out of high school. He's a high-level perimeter shooter but he has the length and skills to put the ball on the floor and score inside. He has college experience and has played in big games. We can't wait to get a chance to work with Garrett."
                            AIDEN SATTERFIELD was a two-time All-Stater and 1,000-point scorer who averaged 21.4 points and 8.3 rebounds a night as a senior, setting school single-game records with 46 points and 10 3-point field goals. He led the Irish to the semifinals of the West Virginia Class AA state tournament and was MVP and Slam Dunk champion at the West Virginia North-South All-Star Game.
                            Howlett says: "We have been recruiting Aiden for several years so we're thrilled to have him on the hilltop. He's an extremely versatile player who competes at a high level on both ends of the floor. Aiden has a very high ceiling and we think he could be a standout player in our system."
                            DANTE SPADAFORA was an electrifying four-time All-State point guard who helped lead Our Lady of Sacred Heart High School to an unbeaten WPIAL and Pennsylvania state championship season as a senior. A 1,700-point career scorer, Spadafora averaged nearly 20 points a game while stuffing the stat sheets with 5.7 assists, 4.8 rebounds and 4.7 steals a night.
                            Howlett says: "Dante is a winner who comes to us off a spectacular high school career. He has a great ability to play in the open court and get others involved in the offense plus he's an ULTRA competitor. We're really looking forward to seeing him on the floor with our guys."
                            AUSTIN WEBB was a two-time All-Ohio Division III All-District and All-Conference shooting guard who battled through injuries during his senior year at South Point (Ohio). A 1,000-point scorer who led the Ohio Valley Conference in scoring (21.1 ppg.) as a junior, he also led the team in rebounding with 7.5 boards per game.

                            Comment


                            • One of the things that I find unique about WLU is how quickly and effectively they are at getting new players up to speed and playing at a very high level. Seems like every year we have a true freshman and/or transfer that comes in and contributes almost immediately. Last season Rasile came in as a TF and got quality, productive minutes. Year before TF Butler and transfer Mckinney come in and contributed serious minutes. And before them Yoakum, Watson, Monterosso, Griffin, Guillozet, Dennis and Justice, etc. produced their first year on the ARSC court. Unlike many/most DII schools, if you can produce as a TF/transfer, you are going to play.

                              Interesting to see which members of this incoming class, both Freshmen and transfers, produce immediately.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                                One of the things that I find unique about WLU is how quickly and effectively they are at getting new players up to speed and playing at a very high level. Seems like every year we have a true freshman and/or transfer that comes in and contributes almost immediately. Last season Rasile came in as a TF and got quality, productive minutes. Year before TF Butler and transfer Mckinney come in and contributed serious minutes. And before them Yoakum, Watson, Monterosso, Griffin, Guillozet, Dennis and Justice, etc. produced their first year on the ARSC court. Unlike many/most DII schools, if you can produce as a TF/transfer, you are going to play.

                                Interesting to see which members of this incoming class, both Freshmen and transfers, produce immediately.
                                Good points. And Elijah Watson was alpha platoon as a true freshman. When I look at this roster, everyone seems capable of contributing on day 1. Redshirts may occur, but the primary reason may be insuffient minutes for everyone, more than adjusting to level of competition.

                                Comment

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