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  • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

    Would be nice if he could "infect" our rim-runners with a healthy dose of "ShortJumper-19"!!!!!

    He has the atributes to be a highly successful WLU guard. But jeez, ANOTHER guard??? I understand (don't agree) that we have sold out 150% to the "positionless" basketball philosiphy but can't we at least get a few "positionless" players in the 6'6"+ range as opposed to the 6'3"- end of the height scale??
    I suspect the supply of bigs for D2 with Viktor's skill set is quite limited at this time. It might increase after May 13, which is the end of d1 signing period.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

      I suspect the supply of bigs for D2 with Viktor's skill set is quite limited at this time. It might increase after May 13, which is the end of d1 signing period.
      Victor was solid but unspectaular across the board. If he wasn't our only "big" analog, I'd call him a cog in the machine...glad to have him but not indespensable.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

        Victor was solid but unspectaular across the board. If he wasn't our only "big" analog, I'd call him a cog in the machine...glad to have him but not indespensable.
        I don't disagree with any of what you've said here.

        But I think Columbus's wider point may be something like this:

        It's really hard to find fundamentally sound guys who are 6'6" - 6'8" and athletic. Those are guys who likely dominated rather easily in their local high school scene or in the AAU circuit. As a result, they probably had plenty of success doing un-fundamental things. And they probably got a lot of likes on Twitter & YouTube due to some of their acrobatic plays. As a result, athletic guys at that size have no impetus to develop fundamental basketball skills. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" was likely their mentality. Why change what's working. I'm scoring 20 a night in high school and getting lots of likes on Twitter for my AAU windmill dunk. I'm not going to learn how to play defense or hit a pull-up. What's the use.

        My guess is Columbus invoked Viktor in making this implication because Euro bigs are about the only place you're going to find guys of that size and ability who also know how to play team basketball (because the European game demands that more than the American game).

        Maybe Fin Woodward will show us that looks like at 6'8".

        Comment


        • Imho euro bigs are more likely to fit in at wlu, due to reasons that Scrub mentioned. Bigs with this skill set receive considerable interest from D1. Will have to wait until d1 signing window closes.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
            Imho euro bigs are more likely to fit in at wlu, due to reasons that Scrub mentioned. Bigs with this skill set receive considerable interest from D1. Will have to wait until d1 signing window closes.
            If the ONLY big that will work at WLU is a Euro big, then we need to start looking there. Don't want to hear how hard it is to recruit in Europe because it's hard to recruit everywhere! I certainly am not an expert but I think a good first step would be to bring in an assistant coach from Europe. I would imagine it would be relatively easy to find a young coach in Europe that would like to try his hand at NCAA coaching. You could assign this coach as your European Recruiter. Use him to develop contacts in Europe who can feed you prospects in much the same way that you would develop HC contacts in the US that consistently feed you information on top recruits that they might have.

            A second way of approaching this, bring in one of WLU's former players that played in Europe as a scout or coach and assign him the European recruting beat. While he probably wouldn't have as many contacts as a former Euro coach, he probably would have some and almost certainly more than WLU currently has.

            I would imagine you might not see immediate success and that the process would be difficult. But over the course of a couple of years, you probably could develop a pretty good network that would feed you information on bigs that have, for whatever reason, fallen below the D1 radar.

            A point to ponder...We seem to be stuck on getting a big that fills ALL the squares AND at a very high level. Yep...Those guys are rare and are scooped up by D1's almost immediately. Our default position seems to be, if a potential big doesn't check all the blocks comming in, we don't want him. What ever happened to developing a player who might have a hole or two in his game? But the catch is that you eventually have to start giving these players minutes in real games...Only so much you can learn and show in practice no matter how much you try to make it game-like.
            Last edited by boatcapt; 05-07-2022, 12:00 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

              If the ONLY big that will work at WLU is a Euro big, then we need to start looking there. Don't want to hear how hard it is to recruit in Europe because it's hard to recruit everywhere! I certainly am not an expert but I think a good first step would be to bring in an assistant coach from Europe. I would imagine it would be relatively easy to find a young coach in Europe that would like to try his hand at NCAA coaching. You could assign this coach as your European Recruiter. Use him to develop contacts in Europe who can feed you prospects in much the same way that you would develop HC contacts in the US that consistently feed you information on top recruits that they might have.

              A second way of approaching this, bring in one of WLU's former players that played in Europe as a scout or coach and assign him the European recruting beat. While he probably wouldn't have as many contacts as a former Euro coach, he probably would have some and almost certainly more than WLU currently has.

              I would imagine you might not see immediate success and that the process would be difficult. But over the course of a couple of years, you probably could develop a pretty good network that would feed you information on bigs that have, for whatever reason, fallen below the D1 radar.
              Your ideas would seem to require a significant budget increase. Just to level set expectations, how much do you think fans contributed to men's basketball during the day of giving in April 2022?

              The answer is $8,692 of which $2,500 was a matching gift.

              Who is paying the airfare for the Euro players' recruiting visit, much less another coach?

              Given these constraints, a more feasible approach might be to recruit Euro players who are already going to school in usa or are in the transfer portal. This is already being done. Woodard is existence proof.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                Your ideas would seem to require a significant budget increase. Just to level set expectations, how much do you think fans contributed to men's basketball during the day of giving in April 2022?

                The answer is $8,692 of which $2,500 was a matching gift.

                Who is paying the airfare for the Euro players' recruiting visit, much less another coach?

                Given these constraints, a more feasible approach might be to recruit Euro players who are already going to school in usa or are in the transfer portal. This is already being done. Woodard is existence proof.
                I find it difficult to believe that the entire WLU basketball program is running on a budget of $8,692 a year! More likely (but still difficult to believe) that that is alumni donations. As an aside, if that is true, our HC needs to focus a bit more of his attention on the alumni and convincing them to give...I mean, that IS one of the primary responsibilities of a HC, isn't it?

                If as a surmise that this figure does not represent the entire yearly WLU basketball budget, then funding a Euro recruting effort probably becomes a budget allocation issue. In this day and age, much of the advance work recruting wise can be done with little more than a computer and a healthy contact list of Euro U17 coaches. Heck, the Europlayers website is full of players (and coaches) that want to play/coach in America. Sure, there is a lot of chaff in there player/coach database and probably the highest tier players garner D1 offers, but the point is that there are ways to do a lot of the scouting work that was previously done by visiting players and going to their games on-line. BUUUUTTTT...Throwing your hands up and saying it's just too hard for a tiny little school like ours insures that it will NEVER happen!
                Last edited by boatcapt; 05-09-2022, 10:17 AM.

                Comment


                • My bad, boat. I assumed that you were an alumnus and would naturally be familiar about the annual day of giving in april. It is an opportunity for alumni and friends to give to the area that is important to them. You can designate men's basketball, for example. Much more efficient use of marketing resources than having each departnent or team hitting up alumni. Imho, your suggestions are better aligned with d1 programs and their commensurate resources.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                    My bad, boat. I assumed that you were an alumnus and would naturally be familiar about the annual day of giving in april. It is an opportunity for alumni and friends to give to the area that is important to them. You can designate men's basketball, for example. Much more efficient use of marketing resources than having each department or team hitting up alumni. Imho, your suggestions are better aligned with d1 programs and their commensurate resources.
                    Efficient for the school and marketing department, but perhaps not effective for the individual team(s).

                    I think in this internet age, global recruting is becoming easier and easier...and that trickles down to DII's as well. A few years ago, I ran a scouting service that looked for Euro DII caliber players. I was relatively successful at it (70% of players I ID'ed got offers from DII programs). Did the whole thing part time (about 6 hours a week) with a laptop and a fiberoptic connection. Never once went to Europe to scout and meet these players. But funny thing happened. After the first year, it became a "self licking ice cream cone"...Players would seek me out and send me links to their videos unsolicited. Bottom lines, 1. Euro players want to come play college ball in the USA and not all are D1 caliber, 2. I believe a DII could be pretty effective at recruting Euro's with just a part-time assistant or grad assistant doing the initial evaluations on his laptop and WiFi, and 3, The only sure way to fail at recruting Euro's is to do nothing.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                      Efficient for the school and marketing department, but perhaps not effective for the individual team(s).

                      I think in this internet age, global recruting is becoming easier and easier...and that trickles down to DII's as well. A few years ago, I ran a scouting service that looked for Euro DII caliber players. I was relatively successful at it (70% of players I ID'ed got offers from DII programs). Did the whole thing part time (about 6 hours a week) with a laptop and a fiberoptic connection. Never once went to Europe to scout and meet these players. But funny thing happened. After the first year, it became a "self licking ice cream cone"...Players would seek me out and send me links to their videos unsolicited. Bottom lines, 1. Euro players want to come play college ball in the USA and not all are D1 caliber, 2. I believe a DII could be pretty effective at recruting Euro's with just a part-time assistant or grad assistant doing the initial evaluations on his laptop and WiFi, and 3, The only sure way to fail at recruting Euro's is to do nothing.
                      You Might want to share your insights with the coaches and compare notes with what they are doing. In watching euro videos, i have found it difficult to predict their skills against elite competition. Kind of like WV class AA or A all state player's videos.

                      I like the approach wlu took in getting woodard from spire. Elite level competition. Also close enough for open gym tryout.

                      IMHO it is crucial to have a prospective player work out in open gym at wlu. Several team members have confirmed to me that some talented prospective players in the past were eager to commit, but changed their mind after open gym. Heard an interview with Dante where he said he thought he was in good shape, but wanted to throw up after open gym workout. Lol

                      Point is, in person workout is critically important. Euro flight cost is unaffordable for majority of d2 schools.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                        You Might want to share your insights with the coaches and compare notes with what they are doing. In watching euro videos, i have found it difficult to predict their skills against elite competition. Kind of like WV class AA or A all state player's videos.

                        I like the approach wlu took in getting woodard from spire. Elite level competition. Also close enough for open gym tryout.

                        IMHO it is crucial to have a prospective player work out in open gym at wlu. Several team members have confirmed to me that some talented prospective players in the past were eager to commit, but changed their mind after open gym. Heard an interview with Dante where he said he thought he was in good shape, but wanted to throw up after open gym workout. Lol

                        Point is, in person workout is critically important. Euro flight cost is unaffordable for majority of d2 schools.
                        So in your opinion, the only option for WLU are one year rentals or HS recruits that transfer in a year or maybe two? Here's WLU's recent "bigs":

                        Aiden Satterfield (2021-22 recruiting class) - Never saw the court at WLU. Transferred
                        Elija Watson (2020-21 recruiting class) - Played two years at WLU. Transferred
                        Kovacevic (2021-22 recruiting class) - Played one season at WLU after transferring from Quincy. Graduated
                        Owen Hazelbaker (2019-20 recruiting class) - Played two years at WLU. Transferred
                        Jon Alessandro (2018-19 recruiting class) - Played two years at WLU. Transferred
                        Nick Greely (2017-2018 recruiting class) - Played one season at WLU after transferring from Campbell. Transferred

                        Over the last six years, the average tenure of a WLU big, counting redshirt seasons, 1.5 years.

                        The last big (someone 6'7"+) WLU has had who started and finished his career at WLU was Kirkbride who's last season was 2016-17. Interestingly enough, we had TWO bigs finish their careers at WLU that year. Zac Grossenbacher who transferred from Wooford finished a three year run at WLU.

                        Doesn't seem like we have had too much luck bringing bigs in for open gym tryouts. Hopefully Woodard will be different, but given Ben's performance with bigs, I wouldn't bet money on it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                          So in your opinion, the only option for WLU are one year rentals or HS recruits that transfer in a year or maybe two? .
                          Not sure how you came to that inference. I respectfully disagree. Wlu will get the best players that they can who are also a good fit, regardless of their age.

                          Trouble is, no one can predict an athlete's future decision making process as they mature. Recruiting is inexact. If one could develop a failsafe athletic rubric to predict athletic success, one would be very rich.

                          In d1, turnover is 25% of their rosters each year. Given there are 1000 in d2 portal, it is a problem in D2 too. It is the new normal.

                          There are myriad reasons why people leave, regardless of their stature.
                          - Some give up basketball.
                          - Some have the talent but discover over time that they have trouble excelling in a free flowing style and would prefer a set offense.
                          - Some have physical skills, but just have not developed.
                          - Some don't want to hit the weights or be a gym rat.
                          - Some demand entitlement to major minutes... not going to happen at WLU.
                          - Some don't want to wait to earn major minutes and would rather be a big fish in a little pond.

                          That is all part of the maturation process.

                          I am convinced that playing in open gym is required, to give prospective athletes a glimpse of reality of how hard it is to play at wlu. Wlu players concur. A parent once told me that his very athletic son said he was in the best shape of his life by far!

                          Both Crutchfield and Howlett have said that this is a very hard style to play (both physically and mentally) and most athletes are not remotely aware of its difficulty before open gym. Transfers would only be higher without open gym.




                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                            Not sure how you came to that inference. I respectfully disagree. Wlu will get the best players that they can who are also a good fit, regardless of their age.

                            Trouble is, no one can predict an athlete's future decision making process as they mature. Recruiting is inexact. If one could develop a failsafe athletic rubric to predict athletic success, one would be very rich.

                            In d1, turnover is 25% of their rosters each year. Given there are 1000 in d2 portal, it is a problem in D2 too. It is the new normal.

                            There are myriad reasons why people leave, regardless of their stature.
                            - Some give up basketball.
                            - Some have the talent but discover over time that they have trouble excelling in a free flowing style and would prefer a set offense.
                            - Some have physical skills, but just have not developed.
                            - Some don't want to hit the weights or be a gym rat.
                            - Some demand entitlement to major minutes... not going to happen at WLU.
                            - Some don't want to wait to earn major minutes and would rather be a big fish in a little pond.

                            That is all part of the maturation process.

                            I am convinced that playing in open gym is required, to give prospective athletes a glimpse of reality of how hard it is to play at wlu. Wlu players concur. A parent once told me that his very athletic son said he was in the best shape of his life by far!

                            Both Crutchfield and Howlett have said that this is a very hard style to play (both physically and mentally) and most athletes are not remotely aware of its difficulty before open gym. Transfers would only be higher without open gym.



                            No one can predict the future, that is true. That's precisely why we need to stop putting all our eggs in one basket recruting wise. This goes for the areas we recruit AND the requirement that the player come in for an open gym "try out." People can quote stats that all point to WLU being a top tier school year in and year out. That's all true. We have the regular season and even the MEC tourney nailed...wins upon wins upon wins! But then the NCAA Tourney rolls around, point totals drop and quite often, we face a team with a dominant big (or two!) and winning becomes problomatic. Guess we as fans and I would say the coaches too have to ask ourselves, is it enough for us to score a ton of points during the regular season, lead the nation in numerous statistical categories, win the MEC Regular Season and Tourney crowns and go to the NCAA were we lose before the E8 most years with an occasional E* apperance...OR are we trying to win a National Championship with everything else just being statistical window dressing? Not many teams are in the position to make that decision, but we are. When I see us doing the same thing year after year and getting the same basic result, I get concerned that maybe winning the NC is not the goal. Do they want to win it? Sure, and they would probably say that is the goal but are they really willing to change how they do things and, perhaps score a little less (for example) or even win a game or two less if it makes them stronger come NCAA Tourney time? So far just based on what I've observed, the answer seems to be no. They are going to do it their way and if they happen to win an NC, that's nice...but if they don't but put up stageting PPG/WL/MEC Championships, that's just fine too.

                            Comment


                            • I've put on a necklace of garlic, surrounded myself with mirrors, and have holy water within close reach. Sundown is approaching. Will this protect me from the annual emergence and terror of the "Alternate Style"?
                              Oh, the humanity!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post
                                I've put on a necklace of garlic, surrounded myself with mirrors, and have holy water within close reach. Sundown is approaching. Will this protect me from the annual emergence and terror of the "Alternate Style"?
                                Oh, the humanity!
                                Call the Frog Brothers.

                                Comment

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