Originally posted by WarriorVoice
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Originally posted by WarriorVoice View Post
What team (if any) keeps track of points per possession? It's not a stat I have ever seen in ANY official box score...
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Originally posted by Ship69 View Post
If you're making 10 threes and losing a ball game, you'd better play slower or play better defense.
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Originally posted by Scrub View Post
You hit the nail on the head, Ship69. WLU's strategy is to maximize the number of possessions. I think the idea is that they figure they can a) outrun you eventually, or b) simply shoot a higher percentage than you, so the increased possessions gives the law of averages time to work itself out over the course of the game. But either way, the proven antidote to this strategy is when teams are able to SLOW IT DOWN. It's how Charleston and WVSU pulled off their wins against WLU earlier in the season. I suppose it's just easier said than done for a team that doesn't typically run a slow offense to change everything they do for one game and succeed doing it. That's the gamble I think WLU is often making. They figure even if uptempo teams want to slow it down, they likely won't do it well enough to stick with it. And again, UC and WVSU are the exceptions that prove the rule--they don't always play slow (heck WVSU never does), but they were able to change their style for one game and still execute it. Tough work, but a big win awaits if you can pull it off.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
WVSU didn't have a choice. They played with 5 guys.
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Most of these sort of upsets are the result of strong in-game coaching and steady ball handling. The coach has to control the impulses of players to run and hopefully he has a solid pure PG to minimize TO. Though somewhat out of date without a 3pt shot, the NC STATE upset of HOUSTON in the 82-83 NCAA title game is a classic example. Slow the game down UH took 55 shots vs 67 aver. leading to -30 pts against scoring average of 82.4. Handle the ball NC ST 6 TO vs UH 13. NC ST 7 STLS vs UH 0 STLS. Coaching smart to foul not a lot but the right players. HAKEEM was 6-7 from the line, his teammates 4-12. It really starts to work when the R&G team realizes that this particular game is being played entirely different and they cannot change it. Any video of the second half of that game will show an amazing COUGARS team playing scared against an overmatched WOLFPACK with nothing to lose.
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Originally posted by Scrub View Post
I agree with you. It almost felt like the slow down WVSU employed was as much to give their 6-man rotation a chance to rest their legs for 20 seconds per possession as it was a strategic decision. Either way, they pulled it off magnificently.
Last year I was at the WL vs Mercy game. You could see WL was visibly frustrated with the slow pace. Of course, Mercyhurst frustrates everybody. Mercyhurst broke WL's press better than any team I've ever seen. It was to the point it was hurting WL more than helping. Mercyhurst would break it and then reset. Too many teams break it and try and score immediately. That's exactly what WL wants you to do.
You get in to that 100 mph game with WL ... and you have no chance to beat them. Playing fast is havoc for most teams. Playing slow is havoc for WL. They aren't physically built to play a PSAC grinder against the elite teams. Conversely, PSAC teams aren't designed to play 100 mph.
I thought the most entertaining game of the regional last year was WL vs ESU. ESU plays more MEC than PSAC in style.
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Originally posted by Ship69 View Post
I didn't say I objected to it. In fact, I said it was a classy move. What I did say is that it seemed to throw off our rotation for a while.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
I thought the most entertaining game of the regional last year was WL vs ESU. ESU plays more MEC than PSAC in style.
(Kidding of course--there's enjoyment to be had in watching a variety of basketball styles . . . as long as they're well executed . . . perhaps JR's teams notwithstanding?) ; )
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Originally posted by Scrub View Post
Just think of what fun you're missing out on being a PSAC fan--that's what MEC games look like every night!
(Kidding of course--there's enjoyment to be had in watching a variety of basketball styles . . . as long as they're well executed . . . perhaps JR's teams notwithstanding?) ; )
I think one year was like 43-37. Final.
That's the second media timeout in the MEC. Lol.
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Originally posted by Scrub View Post
You hit the nail on the head, Ship69. WLU's strategy is to maximize the number of possessions. I think the idea is that they figure they can a) outrun you eventually, or b) simply shoot a higher percentage than you, so the increased possessions gives the law of averages time to work itself out over the course of the game. But either way, the proven antidote to this strategy is when teams are able to SLOW IT DOWN. It's how Charleston and WVSU pulled off their wins against WLU earlier in the season. I suppose it's just easier said than done for a team that doesn't typically run a slow offense to change everything they do for one game and succeed doing it. That's the gamble I think WLU is often making. They figure even if uptempo teams want to slow it down, they likely won't do it well enough to stick with it. And again, UC and WVSU are the exceptions that prove the rule--they don't always play slow (heck WVSU never does), but they were able to change their style for one game and still execute it. Tough work, but a big win awaits if you can pull it off.
The way to beat WLU is to pull the ball back when you break their press and run time off the clock (and rest) and play outside in defense. If you take the 3 away from WLU and force them inside, they become a very average offensive team.
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Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post
Seems the trick is you have to start strong. Take the Shippensburg and Mercyhurst games against WL the past couple years. Both controlled the tempo the whole way. Both ended up in blowouts.
Last year I was at the WL vs Mercy game. You could see WL was visibly frustrated with the slow pace. Of course, Mercyhurst frustrates everybody. Mercyhurst broke WL's press better than any team I've ever seen. It was to the point it was hurting WL more than helping. Mercyhurst would break it and then reset. Too many teams break it and try and score immediately. That's exactly what WL wants you to do.
You get in to that 100 mph game with WL ... and you have no chance to beat them. Playing fast is havoc for most teams. Playing slow is havoc for WL. They aren't physically built to play a PSAC grinder against the elite teams. Conversely, PSAC teams aren't designed to play 100 mph.
I thought the most entertaining game of the regional last year was WL vs ESU. ESU plays more MEC than PSAC in style.
Think about the last two times IUP has played West Liberty... That 3OT game in the 2014 that IUP blew was played in the 70s. The 2015 regional championship game was a 77-74 final. Mercyhurst and Shippensburg have both blasted West Liberty on the national stage in the last couple years. East Stroud had every opportunity to win last year. West Chester and Kutztown have played competitive games in the regular season with West Liberty (one of the two beat WL at the ASRC).
I guess my point is that playing West Liberty in the NCAA tournament is no longer a death sentence like it used to be. It seems like across the board, the mystique of playing them is gone for most of the better schools in the PSAC. Those teams have proven they can get them off their game, control the play, frustrate them, and even beat them when the lights come on.
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Originally posted by IUP24 View Post
The gap between the top teams in the region (IUP and WL) and everybody else has most certainly shrunk. That said, it's become more evident to me the last couple years that teams in the PSAC have started to figure out ways to be competitive with WL, and even beat them with more frequency.
Think about the last two times IUP has played West Liberty... That 3OT game in the 2014 that IUP blew was played in the 70s. The 2015 regional championship game was a 77-74 final. Mercyhurst and Shippensburg have both blasted West Liberty on the national stage in the last couple years. East Stroud had every opportunity to win last year. West Chester and Kutztown have played competitive games in the regular season with West Liberty (one of the two beat WL at the ASRC).
I guess my point is that playing West Liberty in the NCAA tournament is no longer a death sentence like it used to be. It seems like across the board, the mystique of playing them is gone for most of the better schools in the PSAC. Those teams have proven they can get them off their game, control the play, frustrate them, and even beat them when the lights come on.
It leads me to wonder if that explains why Howlett has been recruiting more athletic players in the past few years. If the system itself is no longer enough to shock teams (like it seemed to be in that run of years when they won 3 straight regional titles), then you need to recruit more than just "system players." Thinking back over Crutch's teams in the early part of this run, he rarely had guys with the athletic ability and one-on-one, beat-your-man ability of guys like Robinson & McKinney. Yes, there were some--Alex Falk, Corey Pelle, Cedric Harris--but it does seem like Crutch relied on the system working (and therefore simply needed to find guys who fit the system). Guys like Wolosinczuk, Morrow, Shetzer, Fortney, Grossenbacher, etc. were perfect for Crutch's system. But those were not guys who could win a one-on-one battle with a defender if the system had been frustrated. I'm just spitballing a bit here, but it certainly seems as though Howlett recognizes the need to rely not merely on the system. System first, which will win most games. But in a game where the system is being frustrated, it becomes more possible that a guy like Robinson can take over the game by getting in the lane and causing havoc of his own. I wonder if that is Howlett's answer to the fact that the top teams in the region are no longer fearing the system. Again, just spitballing a bit.
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