VC Transfers

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Andrew Mork has left California.

Danny's retention issues are blowing up.

[Columbuseer]

It's what works. Every coach does things that are maddening to fans. Joe Lombardi's dream rotation would be Iron Man basketball and 8 players redshirted. We've ended some painful seasons over as those tendencies.

Look at Pitt. Jamie's Panthers essentially were Virginia (before Virginia). He got run out despite being a constant Top 25 team for a decade and now the program is a dumpster fire.

Those kids know what they sign up for before they go play for Tony Bennett. That's his system. He's the boss. Don't like it ... go somewhere else.

Trust me, if IUP hired Gary Manchel and we had to watch that style of play for a full season I'd probably want to jump off a bridge. But, there's no denying in this era of AAU playground basketball, those teams can just completely shutdown 'prolific' offenses.

What was better than watching a 2014 Gannon vs. Mercyhurst game and the score being 12-11 at halftime?

I agree many styles can work with the right players and a good coach. I understand a deliberate style, such as where they pass the ball around trying to score in the post, even though this offense is not my preference.

What I don't get is teams that don't even start their offense until there are about 15 seconds remaining on the shot clock. Then someone sets a high ball screen for the guy who has been dribbling for 10 seconds, who then drives the lane and shoots or dishes while teammates stand around on the perimeter or inside. It seems like a variation of slowdown 4 corners offense, which forced the introduction of the shot clock. North Carolina was nearly unbeatable playing it, but it caused a fan uproar.

[IUP24]

I agree many styles can work with the right players and a good coach. I understand a deliberate style, such as where they pass the ball around trying to score in the post, even though this offense is not my preference.

What I don't get is teams that don't even start their offense until there are about 15 seconds remaining on the shot clock. Then someone sets a high ball screen for the guy who has been dribbling for 10 seconds, who then drives the lane and shoots or dishes while teammates stand around on the perimeter or inside. It seems like a variation of slowdown 4 corners offense, which forced the introduction of the shot clock. North Carolina was nearly unbeatable playing it, but it caused a fan uproar.

IUP beat West Liberty in the Atlantic Regional Championship playing a variation of a deliberate style of offense. It was a 35 second shot clock still then, but I recall Joe even talking about it in the paper (not in the post game press conference, because West Liberty posted every one of those to YouTube for the entire Regional EXCEPT the game they lost). When they gained possession, if a shot was there within the first 5-10 seconds of the possession, they took it. If not, they would wait until there were 15 seconds on the shot clock to run their offense. They beat West Liberty by limiting their possessions. The stat line that night was incredible. Both of those teams could not shoot it much better from the floor. IUP just hit the last shot. If IUP played their typical hybrid type style of play, and gotten baited into playing just a little more up-tempo than typical, they don't win that game.

I both agree and disagree with this on all counts. I'm almost contradicting my own point. I recognize that Tony Bennett's recruits know what they are signing up for. But I also recognize that Tony Bennett gets better recruits than 90-95% of college basketball programs on an annual basis and probably doesn't need to play anything close to the brand of basketball he plays.

The Jamie Dixon comparison is very valid. If Scottie Reynolds' runner doesn't fall, Pitt might win the national championship in 2009. Who knows? Dixon achieved high levels of long term and sustained success in Big East regular seasons by playing that style of basketball. Similar to what Tony Bennett has done in the ACC. Prior to UVA winning the championship, they LARGELY underachieved in the NCAA Tournament, just like Dixon and Pitt. And my point holds true.. When you play a defensive minded style in basketball that is solely predicated on you also being deliberate on offense to run time and limit your opponent's possessions, you're also indirectly hurting your own team. By continually running the shot clock on both ends, you limit your possessions too. And when they went cold playing that way, and UMBC couldn't miss, well... Like BigIndians says, Virginia "took the dirt nap." Had Tony Bennett stayed in the locker room, his team probably runs UMBC off the court. Had Tony Bennett stayed in the locker room, the game against Coastal Carolina, another #16 seed, probably doesn't come down to the final 5 minutes. Tony Bennett won the last game of the season, but it was an incredibly lucky and quite miraculous string of events in that tournament that provided them the ladder to cut down the net. And make no mistake about it, you need luck and the stars to align to win the last game at any level. I just hate that style of basketball, with that much talent, at that level of competition.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

IUP beat West Liberty in the Atlantic Regional Championship playing a variation of a deliberate style of offense. It was a 35 second shot clock still then, but I recall Joe even talking about it in the paper (not in the post game press conference, because West Liberty posted every one of those to YouTube for the entire Regional EXCEPT the game they lost). When they gained possession, if a shot was there within the first 5-10 seconds of the possession, they took it. If not, they would wait until there were 15 seconds on the shot clock to run their offense. They beat West Liberty by limiting their possessions. The stat line that night was incredible. Both of those teams could not shoot it much better from the floor. IUP just hit the last shot. If IUP played their typical hybrid type style of play, and gotten baited into playing just a little more up-tempo than typical, they don't win that game.

I both agree and disagree with this on all counts. I'm almost contradicting my own point. I recognize that Tony Bennett's recruits know what they are signing up for. But I also recognize that Tony Bennett gets better recruits than 90-95% of college basketball programs on an annual basis and probably doesn't need to play anything close to the brand of basketball he plays.

The Jamie Dixon comparison is very valid. If Scottie Reynolds' runner doesn't fall, Pitt might win the national championship in 2009. Who knows? Dixon achieved high levels of long term and sustained success in Big East regular seasons by playing that style of basketball. Similar to what Tony Bennett has done in the ACC. Prior to UVA winning the championship, they LARGELY underachieved in the NCAA Tournament, just like Dixon and Pitt. And my point holds true.. When you play a defensive minded style in basketball that is solely predicated on you also being deliberate on offense to run time and limit your opponent's possessions, you're also indirectly hurting your own team. By continually running the shot clock on both ends, you limit your possessions too. And when they went cold playing that way, and UMBC couldn't miss, well... Like BigIndians says, Virginia "took the dirt nap." Had Tony Bennett stayed in the locker room, his team probably runs UMBC off the court. Had Tony Bennett stayed in the locker room, the game against Coastal Carolina, another #16 seed, probably doesn't come down to the final 5 minutes. Tony Bennett won the last game of the season, but it was an incredibly lucky and quite miraculous string of events in that tournament that provided them the ladder to cut down the net. And make no mistake about it, you need luck and the stars to align to win the last game at any level. I just hate that style of basketball, with that much talent, at that level of competition.

We saw this year in the D2 tournament. Mercyhurst witch-slapped Fairmont State in Round 1 -- completely shut down that high-scoring offense. The next game they couldn't hit the side of a barn on the offensive end and got embarrassed.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Off-topic but there are heavy rumors circulating that Virginia State is going to move up and join the MEAC.

Basketball-wise, they are ready (facility-wise). They have an arena on par with the KCAC.

[Chuck Norris]

IUP beat West Liberty in the Atlantic Regional Championship playing a variation of a deliberate style of offense. It was a 35 second shot clock still then, but I recall Joe even talking about it in the paper (not in the post game press conference, because West Liberty posted every one of those to YouTube for the entire Regional EXCEPT the game they lost). When they gained possession, if a shot was there within the first 5-10 seconds of the possession, they took it. If not, they would wait until there were 15 seconds on the shot clock to run their offense. They beat West Liberty by limiting their possessions. The stat line that night was incredible. Both of those teams could not shoot it much better from the floor. IUP just hit the last shot. If IUP played their typical hybrid type style of play, and gotten baited into playing just a little more up-tempo than typical, they don't win that game.

I both agree and disagree with this on all counts. I'm almost contradicting my own point. I recognize that Tony Bennett's recruits know what they are signing up for. But I also recognize that Tony Bennett gets better recruits than 90-95% of college basketball programs on an annual basis and probably doesn't need to play anything close to the brand of basketball he plays.

The Jamie Dixon comparison is very valid. If Scottie Reynolds' runner doesn't fall, Pitt might win the national championship in 2009. Who knows? Dixon achieved high levels of long term and sustained success in Big East regular seasons by playing that style of basketball. Similar to what Tony Bennett has done in the ACC. Prior to UVA winning the championship, they LARGELY underachieved in the NCAA Tournament, just like Dixon and Pitt. And my point holds true.. When you play a defensive minded style in basketball that is solely predicated on you also being deliberate on offense to run time and limit your opponent's possessions, you're also indirectly hurting your own team. By continually running the shot clock on both ends, you limit your possessions too. And when they went cold playing that way, and UMBC couldn't miss, well... Like BigIndians says, Virginia "took the dirt nap." Had Tony Bennett stayed in the locker room, his team probably runs UMBC off the court. Had Tony Bennett stayed in the locker room, the game against Coastal Carolina, another #16 seed, probably doesn't come down to the final 5 minutes. Tony Bennett won the last game of the season, but it was an incredibly lucky and quite miraculous string of events in that tournament that provided them the ladder to cut down the net. And make no mistake about it, you need luck and the stars to align to win the last game at any level. I just hate that style of basketball, with that much talent, at that level of competition.

[Columbuseer]

...

I both agree and disagree with this on all counts. I'm almost contradicting my own point. I recognize that Tony Bennett's recruits know what they are signing up for. But I also recognize that Tony Bennett gets better recruits than 90-95% of college basketball programs on an annual basis and probably doesn't need to play anything close to the brand of basketball he plays.

...

When you play a defensive minded style in basketball that is solely predicated on you also being deliberate on offense to run time and limit your opponent's possessions, you're also indirectly hurting your own team. By continually running the shot clock on both ends, you limit your possessions too. And when they went cold playing that way, and UMBC couldn't miss, well... Like BigIndians says, Virginia "took the dirt nap." Had Tony Bennett stayed in the locker room, his team probably runs UMBC off the cour...

Good points on it being a double edge sword to limit possessions. A hot shooting team who limits turnovers can beat you, even if they are less talented. The slow pace helps a less talented team with limited depth for fatigue is not a factor. Imho you want a style that achieves 1.2+ points per possession.

However, This deliberate style is quite effective against teams that:

- do not take good shots on nearly every possession. Over the last decade, opponents have relied on Fairmont having 5-10 knucklehead offensive possessions or heat check shots every game. Against a strong defensive team like Mercyhurst, that is like blood in the water.

- are incapable of reliably rotating the ball quickly against defensive half court pressure and not letting the ball stick. AAU does not emphasize team passing, so passing is an under-developed skill.

- cannot defend in the half court for 30 seconds. West Liberty used to clearly fall into this category 5 years ago, but not so much recently. Just watch the Hillsdale game, for example.

Imho i suspect that some bad defensive teams delay starting their offense and use high ball screen because the coaches do not trust their players to rapidly pass the ball without committing a turnover. Fewer passes means less chance of a turnover. Imho that is why only 7% of D1 teams even reach 1.0 points per possession. Curse of AAU.

[IUP24]

We can compare Jamie Dixon and Pitt to Tony Bennett and Virginia, but I just don't think it's a fair comparison. That was how basketball was mostly played back then (15 year or so years ago I'm saying). The era of the huge three pointing teams, the full court pressing teams, the run and gun teams etc., they really weren't that common with the exception of your couple outliers. Pitt wasn't the victim of a big first round upset, sure, but they didn't exactly avoid those upsets later. I digress. I just don't think at the height of Pitt's hey day, they were ever as brutal to watch as Virginia is now. And Pitt didn't have the talent that Virginia gets now.

I'm not in favor of playing basketball the way most West Liberty/MEC fans desire the sport be played. But if you considerably reduce the number of possessions you have based on the way you play at both ends of the court, I believe you are more susceptible to losing. Virginia went ice cold in that loss to UMBC who could not miss. It got really late, really early in that game. Once Tony Bennett took the reigns off and let his team play it was simply far too late.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Times change. Styles change. Each his own.

You think of the Virginia and Mercyhurst types ... sexy? No. Effective? Yes.

Tony Bennett could leave UVA at 3pm and have 15 offers by dinner.

I'd take him at Pitt in a second.

This current clown show will be leaving town by March of 2022.

At that time H2P will either go young or open the checkbook. Mega bucks will be the only way of getting a name coach in here.

[Fightingscot82]

Millersville forward Aviwe Mahlong has entered the portal.

[boatcapt]

There are as many "styles," "systoms" and "methods" of playing basketball as there are coaches of basketball. The difference between the "WLU Style," "Redshirt Joes" system and what the F Mercyhurst does (pretty sure there is some voodoo witchcraft involved) is basically the commitment to run them AND bring in players who can do what they are told to do. While I don't think any of the 3 teams sited would be bad if they were somehow telephoned enough mass to another school and system, I didn't think they would be quite as good as they are now.

Interesting off season discussion...how would WLU's team do if the woke up tomorrow and found themselves telephoned onto IUP under Joe? What about IUPs current roster suiting up at Hurst and Hurst's team suddenly losing their way traveling home and somehow finding themselthemselves team working under Cardinal Howlet on the hallowed grounds of the ARSC??

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Interesting late transfer ... PG Tommy Schmock is leaving Findlay. He started 21 of 22 games last year and hit 44 of 109 treys. Looks like one year of eligibility. Led team in minutes.

[Fightingscot82]

Interesting late transfer ... PG Tommy Schmock is leaving Findlay. He started 21 of 22 games last year and hit 44 of 109 treys. Looks like one year of eligibility. Led team in minutes.

Unless he's actually a graduate transfer, that's a strange move. One year left of eligibility but will most likely need two more years to complete a degree. Schools only take so many transfer credits.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Unless he's actually a graduate transfer, that's a strange move. One year left of eligibility but will most likely need two more years to complete a degree. Schools only take so many transfer credits.

He'd be a huge signing for any team in D2 ... but, from the Twitter world, he appears driven to move up.

Odd thing is it's pretty late in the process. Many teams are full.

[Columbuseer]

He'd be a huge signing for any team in D2 ... but, from the Twitter world, he appears driven to move up.

Odd thing is it's pretty late in the process. Many teams are full.

I thought it was odd, also. Then I thought of the quote that has helped me so much over the years:
"When you come to a seeming contradiction, check your assumptions." Author Ayn Rand from the classic book "Atlas Shrugged" (which I highly recommend as an attitude changing book).

My possibly invalid assumption was that he entered the transfer portal BEFORE a team had promised him a roster spot.
Coach Neal Brown of WVU says that tampering is widespread, but he cannot prove it.