Glenville State player's eligibility a focus of ESPN

[Columbuseer]

Re: Glenville State player's eligibility a focus of ESPN

One thing to consider if you compare D1 to the other divisions when it comes to retention rate....

When a player gets a full ride, it's a lot harder to walk away. When a player is getting $2,000 and borrowing $18,000, it's a lot easier to walk away.

Good point. In addition, D2 transfer often does not have to sit out a year if transferring from D2 to D2 or to NAIA (excluding in-conference transfers). D2 has to sit for a year if going to D1.

Despite that D1 transfers are at 25% compared to about 11% for D2 (although as others have pointed out, this number may be low, at least for D2). Seems counterintuitive, given how much D1 players are giving up - full ride, tutors, etc.

[IUP24]

Re: Glenville State player's eligibility a focus of ESPN

One thing to consider if you compare D1 to the other divisions when it comes to retention rate....

When a player gets a full ride, it's a lot harder to walk away. When a player is getting $2,000 and borrowing $18,000, it's a lot easier to walk away.

That's a good point, but I think we need to define "retention rate" and "walk away" a little better. I think BigIndians is saying the "retention rate" is simply keeping a player on your roster, not necessarily if they transfer, flunk out, or just leave the sport altogether. While your use of the term "walk away" isn't focused on transferring, it's focused on leaving due to a lack of scholarship dollars. At least that's how I'm interpreting it.

Players transfer in college basketball at an alarmingly high rate. If you're looking at the number of players that play basketball all four years and don't walk away, I think that's a much different number and/or discussion than the retention rate of a team, or level for that matter, when discussing the transfer problem the sport is faced with.

So while I agree that more players don't "walk away" at the D1 level because they are getting much closer to a free ride in most cases, that doesn't necessarily help the retention rate of the level or team when discussing transfers. Unless of course a large percentage of these transfers are being fueled by the amount of money in the scholarship a player is receiving.

[Columbuseer]

Re: Glenville State player's eligibility a focus of ESPN

Nope. But, I know of at least 12 in the PSAC that aren't on VC yet.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Glenville State player's eligibility a focus of ESPN



Two of the worst yearly offenders aren't on there yet -- Clarion (showing just two) and Slippery Rock.

SRU keeps every thing under extremely tight lock-n-key. As for Clarion ... I'm hearing they may have NOBODY return from last year's roster (very similar to Wheeling Jesuit).

The Gannon departures haven't surfaced yet, either.

When it's all said and done, the '12' will be dramatically higher. Trust me.

[Columbuseer]

Re: Glenville State player's eligibility a focus of ESPN

That's a good point, but I think we need to define "retention rate" and "walk away" a little better. I think BigIndians is saying the "retention rate" is simply keeping a player on your roster, not necessarily if they transfer, flunk out, or just leave the sport altogether. While your use of the term "walk away" isn't focused on transferring, it's focused on leaving due to a lack of scholarship dollars. At least that's how I'm interpreting it.

Players transfer in college basketball at an alarmingly high rate. If you're looking at the number of players that play basketball all four years and don't walk away, I think that's a much different number and/or discussion than the retention rate of a team, or level for that matter, when discussing the transfer problem the sport is faced with.

So while I agree that more players don't "walk away" at the D1 level because they are getting much closer to a free ride in most cases, that doesn't necessarily help the retention rate of the level or team when discussing transfers. Unless of course a large percentage of these transfers are being fueled by the amount of money in the scholarship a player is receiving.

Good points. It depends on what it is we are trying to measure.
Scholarships are only promised for one year.

From a coach's perspective, an important statistic would be how many players are leaving that I was counting on contributing next year, which would be item 1 in the "Reasons to Transfer" list below. No one really knows for sure the reasons for each transfer, but minutes played and stats (are they at end of bench?) could be an indicator of Reason 2.

I think that before we declare transfers a problem that requires action, we need to understand the distribution of reasons for transfers with a focus on Reason 1.
Personally, I believe players should be able to transfer whenever they want just like coaches and scholarships are only good for one year.


Some Reasons for transfer
1. Coach wants them to stay, but player transfers (for more minutes, be a big fish in a little pond, d1 dreams, etc.)
2. Coach suggests that they leave and will not renew scholarship because they have no hope of contributing, not giving effort, disruption to the team, etc.
3. Churn and burn coaching and recruiting philosophy of exploiting players - the player is working hard and contributing but the coach replaces them ecause they need to free up a scholarship for a new recruit who may be better. Hopefully recruits will run from these types of coaches and never sign with them.
4. Student flunks out
5. Student gets in trouble off the court
6. Student decides to give up basketball and may or may not remain as a student

[Columbuseer]

Re: Glenville State player's eligibility a focus of ESPN

Two of the worst yearly offenders aren't on there yet -- Clarion (showing just two) and Slippery Rock.

SRU keeps every thing under extremely tight lock-n-key. As for Clarion ... I'm hearing they may have NOBODY return from last year's roster (very similar to Wheeling Jesuit).

The Gannon departures haven't surfaced yet, either.

When it's all said and done, the '12' will be dramatically higher. Trust me.

Good info. I don't know if NCAA requires D2 to report retention on an individual basis like D1 or if this info is available to the public. In year's past, I would compare some prior year's undergrad roster with the current year and see practically no one was retained. But it did not show up on verbalcommits. Glenville and Charleston were known for this, but this may no longer be the case at these schools. So other schools have kept transfers under lock and key too.

[Dirtybird]