ATLANTIC REGION polls, rankings and blah, blah, blah

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Hectic week in the Atlantic. Again, this list accounts for nothing but losses -- no metrics, etc. Updated list below (Men's):

0-1 losses

IUP (15-0)
West Virginia State (15-1)
East Stroudsburg (14-1)


2-3 losses

West Liberty (14-2)
Mercyhurst (11-2)
Claflin (12-3)
Lock Haven (11-3)


4-5 losses

Virginia Union (14-4)
Winston-Salem State (12-4)
Fairmont State (12-4)
Pitt-Johnstown (11-4)
Slippery Rock (11-4)
Concord (10-4)
Virginia State (12-5)
Charleston (11-5)
West Chester (10-5)


6 losses

Glenville State (10-6)
Seton Hill (9-6)
Shippensburg (9-6)

[Inkblot]

Here's how I have it right now:

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[IUPbigINDIANS]

What's hurting ESU so much? I assume their SOS?

Taking metrics out of it, they may be the best team in the Atlantic.

[IUPalum]

All 4 fast, pressing teams are in the bottom. I love that! Let them beat each other up! Lol

[Inkblot]

What's hurting ESU so much? I assume their SOS?

Taking metrics out of it, they may be the best team in the Atlantic.

Only five teams in the region have a lower SOS. Their highest-rated opponent is Pitt Johnstown.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Only five teams in the region have a lower SOS. Their highest-rated opponent is Pitt Johnstown.

Appreciate the metrics. The eye test, at least my eyes, gives a slightly different read (but not drastically different).

As of today, I'd rank the Atlantic Top 8:

1. IUP
2. West Virginia State
3. East Stroudsburg
4. West Liberty
5. Mercyhurst
6. Virginia Union
7. Fairmont State
8. Pitt-Johnstown

[Ship69]

Only five teams in the region have a lower SOS. Their highest-rated opponent is Pitt Johnstown.

That should pick up some when they play IUP.

[IUPalum]

That should pick up some when they play IUP.

An ESU win will loom larger for them than IUP on that day. ESU being that low in Inkblot's ranking isn't good. He's usually pretty close to spot on.

[Scrub]

An ESU win will loom larger for them than IUP on that day. ESU being that low in Inkblot's ranking isn't good. He's usually pretty close to spot on.

But WLU's bad loss on Saturday might drop them a bit. IUPbigIndians might be right that WVSU is primed to jump to the 2 spot. I'm not sure ESU will jump from 7 to 3, but there is likely to be some movement after this past weekend.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Since it was brought up, I went ahead and took a closer look at ESU's body of work.


They scheduled a (somewhat) good non-conference slate (on paper) ... just happened some of these typically strong programs aren't having great years. They can't control that. Fayetteville and Bowie were expected to be much better than they are at this point. Bridgeport is traditionally a very strong program.

Fayetteville State (10-9)
Bowie State (5-14)
Bridgeport (9-8)
Georgian Court (9-7)
D'Youville (3-12)
Molloy (6-12)

All I can really judge them on (and, from watching them) is they hammered UPJ (32 points), Slippery Rock (27) and Shippensburg (30).

Now, somewhat (to me) oddly, they struggled a bit (or, at least the score was much closer) against Millersville (11) and California (13).

Of course, the theme you may see is UPJ, SRU and Shippensburg aren't built to run. Those are classic half-court teams and ESU obviously got them way out of their comfort levels. SRU had trouble just getting the ball in-bounds for long stretches. Millersville and Cal, conversely, are more athletic teams. I'm aware Cal was getting hammered in that game before making a late push (which they seem to do every game).

SOS-wise, they got stuck with Clarion in cross-over, which will be an anchor all year. They also get winless Bloomsburg twice along with Mansfield twice.

But, they have some nice boosters on the way -- IUP, LH (twice), WCU (twice), Kutztown (twice) and Shippensburg (again).

One metric that will likely hinder them is the record vs other regionally ranked teams. We'll see if UPJ stays in the rankings. They still have Mercyhurst twice and IUP again (in Indiana). IUP won't go undefeated but probably won't lose more than 2-3 games in the regular season (if that).

ESU had its hiccup in Greensburg. Seton Hill is a good team. They dropped some games when their star PG was out. They are tough.

I get what the metrics are saying. But, trust me, ESU is very strong. Playing that style with legitimate, athletic, monster bigs ... is a very scary proposition.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

But WLU's bad loss on Saturday might drop them a bit. IUPbigIndians might be right that WVSU is primed to jump to the 2 spot. I'm not sure ESU will jump from 7 to 3, but there is likely to be some movement after this past weekend.

That's just my 'eye test' rankings. I get the metrics side of things.

[Ship69]

Since it was brought up, I went ahead and took a closer look at ESU's body of work.


They scheduled a (somewhat) good non-conference slate (on paper) ... just happened some of these typically strong programs aren't having great years. They can't control that. Fayetteville and Bowie were expected to be much better than they are at this point. Bridgeport is traditionally a very strong program.

Fayetteville State (10-9)
Bowie State (5-14)
Bridgeport (9-8)
Georgian Court (9-7)
D'Youville (3-12)
Molloy (6-12)

All I can really judge them on (and, from watching them) is they hammered UPJ (32 points), Slippery Rock (27) and Shippensburg (30).

Now, somewhat (to me) oddly, they struggled a bit (or, at least the score was much closer) against Millersville (11) and California (13).

Of course, the theme you may see is UPJ, SRU and Shippensburg aren't built to run. Those are classic half-court teams and ESU obviously got them way out of their comfort levels. SRU had trouble just getting the ball in-bounds for long stretches. Millersville and Cal, conversely, are more athletic teams. I'm aware Cal was getting hammered in that game before making a late push (which they seem to do every game).

SOS-wise, they got stuck with Clarion in cross-over, which will be an anchor all year. They also get winless Bloomsburg twice along with Mansfield twice.

But, they have some nice boosters on the way -- IUP, LH (twice), WCU (twice), Kutztown (twice) and Shippensburg (again).

One metric that will likely hinder them is the record vs other regionally ranked teams. We'll see if UPJ stays in the rankings. They still have Mercyhurst twice and IUP again (in Indiana). IUP won't go undefeated but probably won't lose more than 2-3 games in the regular season (if that).

ESU had its hiccup in Greensburg. Seton Hill is a good team. They dropped some games when their star PG was out. They are tough.

I get what the metrics are saying. But, trust me, ESU is very strong. Playing that style with legitimate, athletic, monster bigs ... is a very scary proposition.

I don't think in the case of Ship it was a matter of simply being built for half-court. The Raiders were able to keep up very well with another uptempo team, Fairmont State. ESU simply has better personnel than they've had in quite a while. Ship would have trouble handling them in any style of play this year. The sort of amusing thing is that ESU's rout of Ship apparently put the word out there that the way you beat Shippensburg is to press them, so everyone we've played since then has tried a press in one form or another. The problem for most of them is that they are teams that don't traditionally run a press and don't have the talent of East Stroudsburg. Pressing a team that has equal or better talent than yours is a dangerous undertaking.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I don't think in the case of Ship it was a matter of simply being built for half-court. The Raiders were able to keep up very well with another uptempo team, Fairmont State. ESU simply has better personnel than they've had in quite a while. Ship would have trouble handling them in any style of play this year. The sort of amusing thing is that ESU's rout of Ship apparently put the word out there that the way you beat Shippensburg is to press them, so everyone we've played since then has tried a press in one form or another. The problem for most of them is that they are teams that don't traditionally run a press and don't have the talent of East Stroudsburg. Pressing a team that has equal or better talent than yours is a dangerous undertaking.

Fairmont State runs more of a three-quarter-court press. I'd rather face that any day compared to the versions ESU and WL run ... with all the heavy pressure, coffin corners, etc.

I agree with you that when teams who don't press, try and press ... it's usually highly unsuccessful. IUP messes around with a three-quarter-court press and it's pretty much a waste of time. I think this year they've forced one turnover out of it and probably gave up 28 points worth of easy layups. I get it's not all about turnovers. Sometimes I think Joe runs it just to mess with the other teams' rhythm, etc. They may run it 2-3 times a game.

Now, I will say IUP has shredded every team that has attempted to press them this year. That wasn't the case last year but they made some nice tweaks (and have really strong guards along with Ethan and Tomiwa). I'd love to see this team get in to a run/gun but that's just not how Joe plays. But, he's deep enough this year.

[Chuck Norris]

Fairmont State runs more of a three-quarter-court press. I'd rather face that any day compared to the versions ESU and WL run ... with all the heavy pressure, coffin corners, etc.

I agree with you that when teams who don't press, try and press ... it's usually highly unsuccessful. IUP messes around with a three-quarter-court press and it's pretty much a waste of time. I think this year they've forced one turnover out of it and probably gave up 28 points worth of easy layups. I get it's not all about turnovers. Sometimes I think Joe runs it just to mess with the other teams' rhythm, etc. They may run it 2-3 times a game.

Now, I will say IUP has shredded every team that has attempted to press them this year. That wasn't the case last year but they made some nice tweaks (and have really strong guards along with Ethan and Tomiwa). I'd love to see this team get in to a run/gun but that's just not how Joe plays. But, he's deep enough this year.

IUP was lighting it up like crazy before Shawndale got hurt last year. Do you think that was Joe’s trust in Armoni to be the engine that made things go? I get not wanting to go like that this year and push Shawndale and Ethan too hard.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

IUP was lighting it up like crazy before Shawndale got hurt last year. Do you think that was Joe’s trust in Armoni to be the engine that made things go? I get not wanting to go like that this year and push Shawndale and Ethan too hard.

I remember on his show last year he said they had planned to play that run/gun all season but that obviously all changed the night Shawndale went down. He also said he didn't love playing that way as it hampered their defense. Who knows. But, that sure was an exciting 7 games of basketball last year. You're right ... that was a total 180 degree change mid-season once they were short-handed. They went from flying to crawling/grinding.

We've seen some flashes of it this year but very limited.

I'm very curious to see how he divides the guard minutes up in the coming games. We know David and Shawndale aren't going to sit much (nor should they). But that leaves Dallis, Stewart and Polce. It sure seems Bethea is done (meaningful minutes) pending something unforeseen.