Regional final game ... incredible

[tsull]

I did read that wrong, sorry. However, I will guarantee that you will not be winning national titles in division 1. The baseball dream is just that as usually it's a warm weather school that's winning them. Oregon State won three as a cold weather school if you consider just rain cold weather, doesn't snow in Corvallis.

You will not be competitive in volleyball with the likes of the Power 5 schools. The hope for the administration is to get that one victory in the big dance we all know that. Your lives of winning national titles are over, sorry to be a realist but they are. Actually you probably won't get even in contention for any national playoffs in any sport.

[NSU4LIFE]

Honestly, I knew it was somewhat douchey when I wrote it out because I knew it was very "rah rah" Augie, but I was sincerely questioning where Augie falls on that spectrum tsull was referring to of electing "to kick a$$ in D2 instead of being a D1wannabe and get drilled in all sports all in hopes of some day getting a one-game pay day from the big dance." On the one hand, I like that Augie has been a successful/respectable program in several sports over the past 10 years. On the other hand, is there a chance we could at some point be competitive in more than one sport at the D1 level? I understand why people would say no, but the point of my post was to show that we've had a pretty diverse range of sports success as an athletic department, so it's not just a guarantee we'd be going "all in" on men's basketball and expecting to suck in every other sport.

I would hope if we went D1 we'd actually be somewhat competitive in baseball and softball still, and possibly even volleyball (it honestly might be easier to be better in D1 volleyball for us than to be trapped in this conference that consistently has 4-6 teams in the Top 10 each year). Now would we beat the University of Texases and the Mississippi States of D1 college baseball? Probably not. But we've also recently won the baseball National Championship for Division II and it didn't really do a ton to move the needle for Augustana in terms of recognition and local fan/media support or anything either. So if our athletic success isn't driving the growth of the school in some tangible way, what is the real value of it? To allow some students to play some sports and for a small (relatively speaking) regional fanbase to be happy they're winning games against teams no one else in the country has ever heard of? To me, I'd rather see us take a shot at the D1 level, possibly be competitive on a national scale (to some degree) and hopefully, eventually raise the profile of the university to the point that a random potential student in North Carolina or Delaware or Oregon has actually heard of Augustana University.

Ultimately, I think that's the big-picture goal of going D1. Not to just win a first-round game in the NCAA Tournament, but to elevate the university's profile beyond the borders of the Dakotas and Minnesota, which is a lot tougher to do as long as we stay Division II.

Sorry for the tangent. With the season over, I need something to ramble about apparently.

I've said it before, but Augie would have been incredibly competitive across the board in the Summit and in some cases, likely win a conference title or two right off the bat.

Now that the Summit shut the door (atleast for now) if Augie lands in a similar level conference they just likely win more conference titles, issue of course is football, but we've thrown out opinions on that front for a few years and is part of a different thread already.

While I appreciate our west coast friend for his compliman, while Northern is doing good things, making progress and has incresible support, we aren't near winning the all-sports award in the conference so, dependant on how his critique is set up, I get it. But Augie and Mankato have incredible success in their athletics across the board (even though only one of those schools has a fan base that seems to give a poop) :)

[MrAugustana]

I did read that wrong, sorry. However, I will guarantee that you will not be winning national titles in division 1. The baseball dream is just that as usually it's a warm weather school that's winning them. Oregon State won three as a cold weather school if you consider just rain cold weather, doesn't snow in Corvallis.

You will not be competitive in volleyball with the likes of the Power 5 schools. The hope for the administration is to get that one victory in the big dance we all know that. Your lives of winning national titles are over, sorry to be a realist but they are. Actually you probably won't get even in contention for any national playoffs in any sport.

I think we are still misunderstanding each other slightly. Getting closer though.

1) If we go D1, I don't expect that we will win national titles in any sports. My point is that we HAVE won 3 Division II national titles in significant sports in the last 5 years and I don't know that it has made that much of an impact. So even if we win more of them in the future, what is it really doing for the university? Not that I don't want us to win more of them, I'm just explaining some of my pro-D1 perspective.

2) We would not be going to a Power 5 conference. Like...ever. So the hope would be to be/get/stay competitive in our mid-major conference (like many, many D1 programs do) and occasionally get a chance to hit the big stage when we have a particularly strong season. So I agree, our volleyball program won't be competitive against Power 5 schools, but we wouldn't be expected to be. And either way, in the past few years our D2 conference has had up to 5-6 teams in the Top 10 (not the Top 25, the Top 10) at the same time. So it's already as hard as all get out to win in volleyball in our conference anyway. But that's beside the point.

3) It's also a personal preference thing. I would just rather see Augustana try to achieve on a more national scale, even if it means not winning more National Championships. There are plenty of alumni who were opposed to that, and I understand why. I would just rather try to take it to the next level than settle for being somewhere between pretty good and really good at a level that not as many people care about nationally.

That being said, if we are officially staying D2, I'd be more than happy to see Augie get back in the National Championship hunt again in any sports we can.

Two things from your post I specifically disagree with:

1)

The hope for the administration is to get that one victory in the big dance we all know that.

The hope for the administration, I would assume, is to get more than one victory in several NCAA Tournaments over the years. Look at Northern Iowa. It wasn't that long ago that they were in our old D2 conference (the NCC). Now they are more nationally known basically because of a miracle Sweet 16 run. I would think building our program up to accomplish something to that degree should be the more ambitious goal. If the administration's goal is to just get one big win, they are very shortsighted. Not that one big win wouldn't be nice.

2)

Actually you probably won't get even in contention for any national playoffs in any sport.

[tsull]

How are you going to pay for all those six figure coaches and multi-million dollar facilities? What most schools do across the country, which is not reported on as they take money from academics and siphon it into athletics. About 90% of division 1 athletic programs lose money. What is the plan for Augustana to actually make money and pay six-figure coaches?

Also, I take that back. Most presidents and athletic directors are just hoping to get into the NCAA tournament they don't care about winning that game. personally I think about 150 of those division one basketball schools should be sent down to division 2. Most of them are drawing about a thousand a game in men's basketball. Whether they draw 1,000 or 3,000 or 10,000 a game, the six figure athletic director keeps his job. It's a shell game that most schools can't play but they think they can.

The summit league is only relevant in their region. Nationally they don't contend for any championships in any sport. Hitting a jump shot in March for Northern Iowa was was cute, not competitive.

[MrAugustana]

How are you going to pay for all those six figure coaches and multi-million dollar facilities? What most schools do across the country, which is not reported on as they take money from academics and siphon it into athletics. About 90% of division 1 athletic programs lose money. What is the plan for Augustana to actually make money and pay six-figure coaches?

Also, I take that back. Most presidents and athletic directors are just hoping to get into the NCAA tournament they don't care about winning that game. personally I think about 150 of those division one basketball schools should be sent down to division 2. Most of them are drawing about a thousand a game in men's basketball. Whether they draw 1,000 or 3,000 or 10,000 a game, the six figure athletic director keeps his job. It's a shell game that most schools can't play but they think they can.

The summit league is only relevant in their region. Nationally they don't contend for any championships in any sport. Hitting a jump shot in March for Northern Iowa was was cute, not competitive.

As far as the funding goes, either our administration would have to put some things in place to ensure they have the funding, or it's not there and we shouldn't try to go D1.

Regardless, we clearly have different opinions on Augustana going D1. I suppose I am slightly more optimistic about the opportunities that would arise from an endeavor like this, but it doesn't matter anyway. We didn't get into the Summit League, and short of something surprising happening with the WAC (highly doubtful at this point), I would assume we aren't getting in there either. So unless something changes dramatically with how the Summit League previously viewed us as a membership candidate, I'm willing to bet the possibility won't be open for Augie for the foreseeable future.

[Brandon]

Listen, I understand your jealousy, but you don't need to sound so bitter about it...

In all seriousness, I'll admit that some of your comments aren't far off, but as far as overall athletic departments go, I'll take our "mild" success over the past 7-10 years over many schools in the region, whether it results in biting sarcasm from opposing fans or not.

Tangential question.....

What do you consider to be regional schools?

[Brandon]

(1) I would hope if we went D1 we'd actually be somewhat competitive in baseball and softball still, and possibly even volleyball (it honestly might be easier to be better in D1 volleyball for us than to be trapped in this conference that consistently has 4-6 teams in the Top 10 each year).

(2) So if our athletic success isn't driving the growth of the school in some tangible way, what is the real value of it? To allow some students to play some sports and for a small (relatively speaking) regional fanbase to be happy they're winning games against teams no one else in the country has ever heard of?

(3) To me, I'd rather see us take a shot at the D1 level, possibly be competitive on a national scale (to some degree) and hopefully, eventually raise the profile of the university to the point that a random potential student in North Carolina or Delaware or Oregon has actually heard of Augustana University.

(4) Ultimately, I think that's the big-picture goal of going D1. Not to just win a first-round game in the NCAA Tournament, but to elevate the university's profile beyond the borders of the Dakotas and Minnesota, which is a lot tougher to do as long as we stay Division II.

(5) Sorry for the tangent. With the season over, I need something to ramble about apparently.

Some things to consider....

(1) Without looking it up, can you tell me who won the softball championship in 2019? Can you tell who was in the finals? You might be able to, but the casual fan, whose attention you want to attract, probably does not know and does not care.

(2) I agree, but this could also be used to argue a position contrary to yours. What is the point of spending million more dollars per year if it doesn't grow the school? At best, Augustana is the third school in an underpopulated state. Nationally, people don't know who is in the Summit outside of the fact that one of their representatives will play in the NCAA tournament. The real question: Is simply participating in a low-level D1 conference worth spending the extra millions?

(3) Is the increased expense worth it simply to make Augie known to them, or does that financial investment have to translate into increased enrollment/donations?

(4) I don't know if that is a realistic goal for Augustana. It was for North Dakota State. If Augustana was the size that NDSU was back in 2000, it would seem more likely.

(5) Don't apologize. It's a discussion worth having.

[Brandon]

Two things from your post I specifically disagree with:

1)


The hope for the administration, I would assume, is to get more than one victory in several NCAA Tournaments over the years. Look at Northern Iowa. It wasn't that

(1) Northern Iowa is basically four times larger than Augie - very similar to NDSU. I don't think that's a school that should be used as a model. A small, private school that made the move would be a better comparison.

(2) There is no doubt that achievers in D2 can achieve in low level D1 conferences and in the less popular sports as well as basketball.

[CatFan88]

(1) Northern Iowa is basically four times larger than Augie - very similar to NDSU. I don't think that's a school that should be used as a model. A small, private school that made the move would be a better comparison.

(2) There is no doubt that achievers in D2 can achieve in low level D1 conferences and in the less popular sports as well as basketball.

Like Bellarmine? They did pretty well in basketball this year after the move up.

[BearcatMediaStudent1]

Former D2 member Abilene Christian just upset Texas in the Big Dance.

[ZubCat81]

Former D2 member Abilene Christian just upset Texas in the Big Dance.

Pretty sure Dorrel and Lambo had something to do with those last CRAZY 0:56 seconds! WHAT A FRICKIN' GAME!!! This NCAA Tourney is out of control. My brackets are in the dumpster.

[MrAugustana]

Tangential question.....

What do you consider to be regional schools?

[MrAugustana]

Some things to consider....

(1) Without looking it up, can you tell me who won the softball championship in 2019? Can you tell who was in the finals? You might be able to, but the casual fan, whose attention you want to attract, probably does not know and does not care.

(2) I agree, but this could also be used to argue a position contrary to yours. What is the point of spending million more dollars per year if it doesn't grow the school? At best, Augustana is the third school in an underpopulated state. Nationally, people don't know who is in the Summit outside of the fact that one of their representatives will play in the NCAA tournament. The real question: Is simply participating in a low-level D1 conference worth spending the extra millions?

(3) Is the increased expense worth it simply to make Augie known to them, or does that financial investment have to translate into increased enrollment/donations?

(4) I don't know if that is a realistic goal for Augustana. It was for North Dakota State. If Augustana was the size that NDSU was back in 2000, it would seem more likely.

(5) Don't apologize. It's a discussion worth having.

1) No, I can't. Which in my opinion furthers my point that if the D1 championships are that irrelevant, then even fewer people care about the D2 championships. But to be clear, we wouldn't be making the jump for those sports, I'm just of the opinion that we have the potential to still be competitive in those sports at the next level. Particularly in the women's programs, due to our strength as a nursing program, which has unique aspects to it that make it a really appealing program for aspiring nurses.

2) My point is that if we don't do something to majorly push Augustana forward in the public eye, we are always going to be a small, regional, Division II school. The statistics of the impact NCAA Tournament appearances make on athletic institutions, even just first-round appearances, are undeniable. Anything after that makes an even more significant impact. While we won't ever be the women's UConn team or Butler in men's basketball, this article breaks down the potential positive impact: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/con...school-n320876

"Our corporate sponsors have grown significantly, which is attributable to our success in 2010 and 2011," said Barry Collier, Butler's director of athletics, who's also a 1976 graduate and former head basketball coach. "Licensing has jumped somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 percent."

It also explains:

For instance, following its 2010 tournament march, Butler commissioned a pair of firms to track TV, print, and online media publicity from March to December of that year. The tally topped out at more than $639 million, a figure that dropped to about $500 million after Butler's 2011 Final Four appearance. "We couldn't afford to buy the kind of exposure our team earned," Collins said.

Again, to be unequivically clear, I KNOW WE PROBABLY WON'T MAKE A FINAL FOUR RUN ANYTIME SOON. But my point is that the impact it makes is significant for schools. So if the Augustana University's long-term vision is growth to the degree they want to grow (which it is), it's reasonable that developing our athletics at the D1 level makes more sense to help accomplish that goal than staying D2, even if it costs money to get there.

Again, that doesn't guarantee success. I'm just saying that I don't see how the administration's plan succeeds as desired without a bigger-picture push athletically.

3) Typically, from what I have seen and read, the statistics indicate that getting more exposure in national tournaments and whatnot does translate to increased enrollment and donations. I suppose that's assuming the administration is competent and knows how to capitalize on that opportunity. And, similarly important (and the reason I think so many of the Summit League schools were afraid to let Augie in), corporate sponsorship dollars.

4) I don't think it's necessarily a realistic goal to BE the next North Dakota State or South Dakota State. But we aren't comparing ourselves to those schools. The administration's goal would need to be to make Augie the most viable D1-worthy institution it could be for its size and financial support. They don't HAVE to be NDSU, they just have to be Augustana. And again, if they can't find that money somewhere to actually make the jump, then it probably isn't going to work. So that's the administration's responsibility to create excitement around it, build donor support, and translate that into growth. That's one of the reasons I think their secretive, "that's on a need-to-know basis" approach to their Summit League application was poorly executed. Personally I would've loved to see them be more transparent and help build the excitement with our fanbase rather than playing all their cards close to their chests and leaving all of the non-administrators and general supporters in the dark about the process. But that's a different conversation.

5) I agree. I just imagine some people on here are tired of talking about it.

[MrAugustana]

(1) Northern Iowa is basically four times larger than Augie - very similar to NDSU. I don't think that's a school that should be used as a model. A small, private school that made the move would be a better comparison.

(2) There is no doubt that achievers in D2 can achieve in low level D1 conferences and in the less popular sports as well as basketball.

1) Yes, again, not saying they're our "model." That's never been my point. I'm just saying that the exposure in the tournament helped increase Northern Iowa's name recognition and I'm sure strengthened it's fan base. People who weren't Northern Iowa fans have since become Northern Iowa fans. Winning teams gain supporters. Look at this message board. You almost never find fans of teams that don't win on here (Crookston, Minot, Mary, Concordia-St. Paul, etc.). I personally feel the same thing translates out into the real world. When teams are winning, fans are active and engaged about them and publicly and actively support them. If Augie achieved success at the D1 level, it follows that they would grow their fanbase as time went on, just like the local Dakota schools have. The number of people I know who didn't go to SDSU but have become SDSU fans because of Nate Wolters and Mike Daum and their tournament runs and all the hype that came with those tournament runs is astounding. We may never get to that point if we go D1, but I know with 100% certainty that we will never get to that point as long as we stay D2. So if the administration's long-term goal is to stay small and regional, then we should stay D2. But if the administration's goal is to grow and be known on a more national scale (which it is, according to them), then staying D2 really isn't the best path to help accomplish that.

2) Agree completely. That's why I would've loved to see us take a shot at it in the Summit League. If we had gone D1 ten years ago, there are several key Summit League players who had Augie as their second choice for schools but said they ultimately wanted to be D1. SDSU's own program-boosting Nate Wolters flat-out said that in an ESPN The Magazine interview, and I know of several other current Summit players were on the fence between Augie and the schools they ended up at, with the D1 allure being the deciding factor. On top of that, if we were already D1, we'd likely still have the Summit League's most recent Newcomer of the Year and 1st Team All-Conference player as our starting point guard. The reality is, there are SEVERAL players in the NSIC who would either start or be major contributors in the Summit League and were probably considering Summit League schools during their recruiting process and ended up in the NSIC, but most Summit League fans are too full of themselves to acknowledge that reality. With all of that in mind, I think Augie would have fared much better in the Summit than the "big 4" Dakota schools would like to admit. But at this point, we likely won't ever know. It is what it is. Either way, as you mentioned in your previous post, I think it's still interesting to discuss, especially with the number of D2 schools that have made the jump in the past couple of years (Tarleton State, Bellarmine, etc.).

[Administrator]

Like Bellarmine? They did pretty well in basketball this year after the move up.

Yes. That is one that came to mind.