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  • #76
    Re: Drury Panthers

    Originally posted by GMAC2018 View Post
    Strange. The referee controlled the outcome but the opposition may have deserved to win? Ok I think we're finished here.
    I'm not saying there was bad intent by the referees. If you look at the stats there is one category that jumps off the page. 22 to 2 free throw attempts. It's not just the disparity,, it's the fact Drury just shot 2 free throws. It would look a lot better if it was 30 to 10 attempts.

    Just because of the fluke in the difference of free throw attempts does not mean Ashland does not deserve the victory. They don't blow the whistle.
    MARCH MADNESS

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    • #77
      Re: Drury Panthers

      Originally posted by crazznewt View Post
      I'm not saying there was bad intent by the referees. If you look at the stats there is one category that jumps off the page. 22 to 2 free throw attempts. It's not just the disparity,, it's the fact Drury just shot 2 free throws. It would look a lot better if it was 30 to 10 attempts.

      Just because of the fluke in the difference of free throw attempts does not mean Ashland does not deserve the victory. They don't blow the whistle.

      MARCH MADNESS
      Agree that some teams shouldn't foul so much.

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      • #78
        Re: Drury Panthers

        Originally posted by GMAC2018 View Post
        Agree that some teams shouldn't foul so much.
        For the year, both Drury and Ashland average taking 20+ FT per game and give up about 17 FT per game. Between this year and last year's regional final (both Drury vs Ashland at Ashland), free throws shot were 54-7 in favor of Ashland. 7 free throws shot in 2 games versus the most aggressive DII girls team in the country? That's a bit of a stretch if you ask me.

        However, probably the biggest problem is that the 2 best teams in the country may have just played each other in the Sweet 16. They should go away from the purely geographic based regional.

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        • #79
          Re: Drury Panthers

          Originally posted by DUPanther View Post

          However, probably the biggest problem is that the 2 best teams in the country may have just played each other in the Sweet 16. They should go away from the purely geographic based regional.
          Yes it is hardly fair that Drury has to go to Ashland two years in a row. I do think the N0.1 seed should host but if Drury is one of the top 8 in the country, they should get to host their own regional. Problem just becomes there is not enough out of region competition to tell who is the top 8 in the country.

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          • #80
            Re: Drury Panthers

            Originally posted by KnightStalker View Post
            Yes it is hardly fair that Drury has to go to Ashland two years in a row. I do think the N0.1 seed should host but if Drury is one of the top 8 in the country, they should get to host their own regional. Problem just becomes there is not enough out of region competition to tell who is the top 8 in the country.
            Honestly, I think it's easier to do on the women's side than the men. It's a no-brainer that DU is a top 8 team on the women's side. Both MSU-Billings and Union (TN) won their regionals and made the Elite 8 this year, and Drury beat both of them.

            I guess you'd have trouble deciding who would be the 7th and 8th teams, but you'd never run into a situation where 2 of the top 3 are in the same region.

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            • #81
              Re: Drury Panthers

              Look at the D1 tournament and how much griping is going on regarding seeding and who plays who and where. They aren't tied in the slightest to geographical regions, yet still nobody is happy with the bracket. Well, not MANY people anyway. Point being, going away from geographical regions won't necessarily make it "fair".

              The problem in D2 specifically would be that nobody gets national exposure so how do you really know if the #1 seed in the West region would be seeded above the #1 seed in the East region? Chances are there are few people who have seen both play and could accurately compare them.

              I have never liked the way you end up with teams having to play 4 times in a season the way it is done now. KWC and USI or BU always ended up having that back when we were in the GLVC. You'd play 2x in regular season, meet in the conference tournament, then meet in the regional. I'd kind of like to see them take the regions and pair them up and set up the brackets so that they are cross seeded. So, for example, if MW region is paired with Central region then MW1 would play C8, C1 would play MW8, and so on in the first round. Neutral sites would be nice, too, but in D2 that's probably not real likely to happen.

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              • #82
                Re: Drury Panthers

                Originally posted by kdubnation View Post
                Look at the D1 tournament and how much griping is going on regarding seeding and who plays who and where. They aren't tied in the slightest to geographical regions, yet still nobody is happy with the bracket. Well, not MANY people anyway. Point being, going away from geographical regions won't necessarily make it "fair".

                The problem in D2 specifically would be that nobody gets national exposure so how do you really know if the #1 seed in the West region would be seeded above the #1 seed in the East region? Chances are there are few people who have seen both play and could accurately compare them.

                I have never liked the way you end up with teams having to play 4 times in a season the way it is done now. KWC and USI or BU always ended up having that back when we were in the GLVC. You'd play 2x in regular season, meet in the conference tournament, then meet in the regional. I'd kind of like to see them take the regions and pair them up and set up the brackets so that they are cross seeded. So, for example, if MW region is paired with Central region then MW1 would play C8, C1 would play MW8, and so on in the first round. Neutral sites would be nice, too, but in D2 that's probably not real likely to happen.
                That's all fine, but like I said, you would never have a situation where 2 of the top 3 are in the same region. Sure, there's lots of squabbling over the DI tourney and which team is seeded where, but when is the last time the 2 best teams played each other in the Sweet 16? That never happens.

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                • #83
                  Re: Drury Panthers

                  Maybe not but are you really going to be able to find enough people who can accurately compare all of the teams in D2 and be able to figure out accurately which ones are the top 64? It's somewhat easy for D1 because the top 50% at least of teams get all kinds of national exposure. Can't say the same for D2 women's teams. Hell, you can't even say the same for D1 women's teams!

                  And I get what you're saying about the top 2 or 3 teams but even that is suspect because while someone from the MW might "know" Ashland and Drury are the UConn's of D2, how many teams from the West region have you seen? Or the East region? And vice-versa...the people in those areas haven't seen Drury or Ashland this year for the most part. My whole point is not that you're wrong it's just that I don't think there's really a way to accurately seed the teams that won't end up with someone really good playing someone else really good in an early round...and then the next game ends up being between two mediocre teams.

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                  • #84
                    Re: Drury Panthers

                    https://fansided.com/2018/03/13/ncaa...rs-shot-title/

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                    • #85
                      Re: Drury Panthers

                      A writer who doesn't even take the time or effort to understand why Drury was on the road loses all credibility with me. He clearly saw nothing of the game (other than Drury's video, which didn't sway me one way or another that there wasn't contact on the shot), and, no, Drury didn't deserve to host that game. Ashland did. Regionalization is a staple of D2, and I can't see it changing any time soon.

                      And also, I know there's a lot being made of the "phantom" technical foul call late in the game. Say what you want about the timing of it (the irony is that most fans in the bleachers sound like this: "swallow your whistle late in the game, but only when it benefits the other team, because we want the foul called on our end!"), but most coaches don't get T'd up for the action of that moment. The "stomp" may have been the pot finally boiling over after simmering for an hour and a half. I could be 100% off-base because I don't know how Coach Miller handles herself on the sideline, but a stomp alone would be utterly tragic and I'd be 100% on board with it being a horrendous call if that were the case. Previous history for a late-game technical foul without an over-the-top explosion for most coaches would point otherwise.

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                      • #86
                        Re: Drury Panthers

                        Originally posted by kdubnation View Post
                        Maybe not but are you really going to be able to find enough people who can accurately compare all of the teams in D2 and be able to figure out accurately which ones are the top 64? It's somewhat easy for D1 because the top 50% at least of teams get all kinds of national exposure. Can't say the same for D2 women's teams. Hell, you can't even say the same for D1 women's teams!

                        And I get what you're saying about the top 2 or 3 teams but even that is suspect because while someone from the MW might "know" Ashland and Drury are the UConn's of D2, how many teams from the West region have you seen? Or the East region? And vice-versa...the people in those areas haven't seen Drury or Ashland this year for the most part. My whole point is not that you're wrong it's just that I don't think there's really a way to accurately seed the teams that won't end up with someone really good playing someone else really good in an early round...and then the next game ends up being between two mediocre teams.
                        Understand what you're saying, but there's two issues with the argument that there's no way to do it other than by geographic based regionals: 1. NCAA DII used to use a different system, and 2. the NAIA does it every year.
                        Last edited by DUPanther; 03-14-2018, 07:00 AM.

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                        • #87
                          Re: Drury Panthers

                          This is a pretty impressive article. I find it funny that the refs "cost" Drury the game. The article states that Drury should have won this game running away if not for the Tech. A game in which Drury never had a lead, and a game in which when the technical foul was called were down 2 and Ashland was shooting 2 free throws regardless of the tech. AU spent most of the game with double digit lead. Give credit to Drury for fighting back, but this game was all AU.

                          NOTE: Just saw the writer of this Article is from Springfield Mo, guess that explains it all.

                          As for how the NCAA does its tournament. It's not great, but its pretty close. The NAIA does a national tournament but it is only 32 teams, compared to the 64 the NCAA does. It would be impossible to do a 64 team national tournament at the D2 level, and if they did it would probably still look pretty close to how it does now.
                          Last edited by unc4life; 03-14-2018, 08:06 AM.

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                          • #88
                            Re: Drury Panthers

                            He said the refs cost Drury "A shot at the game". Shooting free throws with the game on the line is different when you know you"re shooting 4 free throws instead of just 2.

                            He did mention that looking at the stat sheet one would think Drury won this game if not for the 22-2 disparity in attempts at the line. Right or wrong, the game's outcome was decided by the referees.

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                            • #89
                              Re: Drury Panthers

                              Originally posted by crazznewt View Post
                              He said the refs cost Drury "A shot at the game". Shooting free throws with the game on the line is different when you know you"re shooting 4 free throws instead of just 2.

                              He did mention that looking at the stat sheet one would think Drury won this game if not for the 22-2 disparity in attempts at the line. Right or wrong, the game's outcome was decided by the referees.
                              Again its fine if you want to blame the officials for the foul discrepancy which wasn't as large as the free throw discrepancy, but if you re watch the game, you will find many many missed foul calls that went against AU. It's all part of the game. Drury is lucky half their team didn't foul out in the 4th quarter.

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                              • #90
                                Re: Drury Panthers

                                Originally posted by unc4life View Post
                                This is a pretty impressive article. I find it funny that the refs "cost" Drury the game. The article states that Drury should have won this game running away if not for the Tech. A game in which Drury never had a lead, and a game in which when the technical foul was called were down 2 and Ashland was shooting 2 free throws regardless of the tech. AU spent most of the game with double digit lead. Give credit to Drury for fighting back, but this game was all AU.

                                NOTE: Just saw the writer of this Article is from Springfield Mo, guess that explains it all.

                                As for how the NCAA does its tournament. It's not great, but its pretty close. The NAIA does a national tournament but it is only 32 teams, compared to the 64 the NCAA does. It would be impossible to do a 64 team national tournament at the D2 level, and if they did it would probably still look pretty close to how it does now.
                                what says it all is the photo the Springfield News Leader printed in this mornings addition of the shot showing no hand within a foot of the shooter and no body within 3 feet of the shooter. With the apparent rebound would Drury have taken the ball down in 11 seconds and made a shot to tie the game or win it with a three? We will never know. Which is why you let the players make plays and see how it works out. Short of a mugging a foul at that point in the game should never be called. It is sad from Drury's standpoint that they never got a chance to find out. It is sad from Ashland's standpoint that with articles and pictures like this their Elite Eight run will be a little bit tainted. Both teams deserve better. At the very least this official should be reprimanded to make sure every official understands if you are going to try and officiate at this level you better be on top of your game.
                                Last edited by DUFan; 03-14-2018, 09:17 AM.

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