G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread

[Tech Boys]

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread



Looks nice!

http://www.malonepioneers.com/news/2...august-28.aspx

Re: G-MAC All-Sports and Conference Business Thread


Did they hint that lacrosse would be coming to Malone?

After the first mention of it in August 2017, Malone is finally adding Men's and Women's Lacrosse.

https://malonepioneers.com/news/2021...-programs.aspx

The G-MAC needs this. The conference currently relies on affiliates in order sponsor men's lax, only 2 full members have the sport. The MEC needs just 2 more teams to have the ability to sponsor men's lax themselves and that would take 3 teams from the G-MAC.

And here's a quote from a year ago.

Re: Malone Drops Football -Immediately

It will be interesting to see if they add lacrosse, wrestling, or some other less expensive sport to make up for lost students.

[BlueBlood]

Ha, yes I remember us discussing this in the past. Good for Malone, and yes much needed for G-MAC.

[BlueBlood]

G-MAC and Conference Carolinas jointly add bowling as a sponsored sport. (both men's and women's)
Set up seems similar to G-MAC/MEC swimming.

[Tech Boys]

G-MAC and Conference Carolinas jointly add bowling as a sponsored sport. (both men's and women's)
Set up seems similar to G-MAC/MEC swimming.

This is an interesting development. D2 currently has 35 teams and is close to having the opportunity to split off its own D2 Bowling Championship. McKendree beat mighty Nebraska to win the 2017 title.

For the G-MAC, this means that every NCAA championship sport sponsored by every member will be under the G-MAC banner. It makes them the only D2 conference (maybe only NCAA conference) that can say that. Tiffin has Women's Wrestling but that is an emerging sport.

For the Carolinas, Chowan is currently in the CIAA and it seems Emmanuel College is elevating their team to NCAA status. Lincoln Memorial is an ECC affiliate. Tusculum should be joining this, they are also an ECC affiliate.

Will this move spur other schools in the two conferences to add Bowling? What CC and G-MAC schools have Men's Bowling?

[BlueBlood]

I saw where Asbury University is moving from NAIA to NCAA D3. There was a time years ago when I thought they might have been a nice non-football target to help bridge the gaps to KWC and TNU. KY is such a tough state for D2. There are only 2 schools in the entire state.

[WKYDave]

I saw where Asbury University is moving from NAIA to NCAA D3. There was a time years ago when I thought they might have been a nice non-football target to help bridge the gaps to KWC and TNU. KY is such a tough state for D2. There are only 2 schools in the entire state.

Agree...It seems that KY has a crazy amount of 4-year schools for a state of 4.5 million people and, generally, the public and private schools struggle with funding. Crazy number of NAIA schools here..., Campbellsville (4,000), U of the Cumberlands (3,400), Lindsey Wilson (2,100), UPike (1,600), Asbury (1,600), Midway (1,100), Georgetown (1,000 undergrads). Of course Georgetown and Campbellsville tried to get NCAA status and were turned down. That was a big blow for a "balanced" G-MAC. With exception of UPike and U of Cumberland, any who help create "South" section of GMAC. KY has 5 "regional" state universities (N KY, E KY, W KY, Morehead, and Murray), a HBCU (KY St) and TWO "Flagships" (U of KY and U of Louisville).

[UFOILERFAN]

Post on GLIAC football thread saying that KWC and Trevecca will be leaving the GMAC and Northwood will be joining the GMAC. To be honest, I've heard the Northwood to the GMAC rumor way too many times to believe it. Also, I've heard nothing about KWC or Trevecca making a change. When people get bored the rumors start and I guess that I'm helping to spread them. LOL.

[BlueBlood]

KWC and TNU do have tremendous travel obligations in the G-MAC and the burden is obvious. Both are founding conference members. And for both, I think the geographic makeup of the conference is definitely different from what they originally envisioned.

That said, I've heard nothing as far as either actively thinking about leaving.

Although their situations are linked and similar, I think there are differences too. For KWC, I think a G-MAC addition or two in Indiana would really help them out. That doesn't seem unfeasible. For TNU, I just don't see a similar bridge at this point. Its not like the G-MAC didn't try - its well documented that they did. I think its unlikely that NAIA schools in-between TNU and Ohio that fit the G-MAC membership profile are willing to stick their neck out again.

TNU has an additional issue in that the Nazarene church has their universities set up specifically to draw from specific geographic regions. TNU's geographic region is the Southeast. In the G-MAC, they literally play every road game outside the region they are supposed to be recruiting kids (student body-wise, not athletic) from.

To the rumor - I don't think the underlying Northwood rumor makes any sense at all - unless there are other moves also happening. Hillsdale made sense because of historical rivalries and because they are right on the OH border. Northwood is 2.5 hours north of HC - right in the center of the GLIAC footprint.

[kdubnation]

You understand it was April Fools Day when that was posted, right?

[kdubnation]

Honestly, though, KWC is on one geographic edge or another for EVERY D2 conference we could conceivably be a part of. So I don't really see us going anywhere simply because there's not a situation that's significantly better for us travel-wise, and with that being the case we might as well stay in the conference with like minded schools (private, religious affiliation, small / smaller budget). The alternatives look to me to be either back to the GLVC (doubt that will ever happen due to non-basketball sports) or possibly join the Gulf South, but I just don't know how much benefit there would be for us to do that.

[WKYDave]

Right...average travel times for KWC to GMAC teams is 5.6 hours, GLVC 4.7, Gulf South 5.8. Gulf South has 7 state schools and 6 private, GLVC has 5 state schools and 10 private. IF GLVC doesn't fit, Gulf South sure doesn't - although traveling South sure beats going North most of the year! KWC and TNU's best hope is that Indy leaves GLVC and a NAIA school from KY or TN (Fisk or Cumberland) go NCAA D2 and there can be an E/W or N/S split with the 4 IN, KY, TN schools with Ceaderville and Ohio Dominican (Maybe Findlay).

[BlueBlood]

KWC and TNU's best hope is that Indy leaves GLVC and a NAIA school from KY or TN go NCAA D2 .

I agree with this. As to an NAIA school - I would actually say KY or IN (if UIndy comes). I think the conference should fill in the holes inside the current footprint rather than push the perimeter.

[WKYDave]

I agree with this. As to an NAIA school - I would actually say KY or IN (if UIndy comes). I think the conference should fill in the holes inside the current footprint rather than push the perimeter.

I named Fisk and Cumberland because they are in Metro Nashville, same as TNU.

[BlueBlood]

UIndy, I brought the conversation back here, as I don't think the GLIACers probably care what happened to NDC and the G-MAC circa 2011. Their obvious worry right now is retaining members.

If you put the pieces together from what is publicly known, we know that in 2009 the OH schools were thinking that Walsh, Malone, NDC, Cedarville, MVNU and Ursuline would start up the new conference and then other former MOC/AMC OH schools (probably plus LEC) would merge over after automatic bids were secured. If all went well, they were probably envisioning a Conference of Findlay, Tiffin, ODU, Walsh, Malone, NDC, LEC, Urbana, Central State, plus non-football schools of Cedarville, Mount Vernon Nazarene and Ursuline.

A lot happened between 2009 and 2011*

By October 2011, the new conference was now a much different grouping of NDC, Cedarville, Urbana, Central State, Ursuline and Kentucky Wesleyan.
ODU, LEC, Walsh and Malone were looking increasingly comfy in the GLIAC, and in November 2011, Trevecca was being added as a G-MAC member. I really think that NDC had a real tough time envisioning how the new conference could ever get the train back on track and turn into anything similar to the one listed above. Ursuline was the only school near NDC - and they only had women's sports. And CSU didn't sponsor many sports. - meaning that on the men's side - they were looking at just Cedarville and Urbana as OH opponents and then super long trips to TN and KY. Meanwhile, the GLIAC was starting to offer NDC more and more affiliate sports memberships and there was a potential path to full fledged GLIAC membership was becoming clearer. That full invite never materialized, and NDC jumped at the MEC invite (which took Urbana too).

---

*To be clear - If I knew the original OH schools' D2 conference plan (and I really don't have that many contacts), so did the GLIAC.

As we are seeing right now, despite its history, might, and being part of the establishment - the GLIAC is actually vulnerable. Its geography makes it vulnerable. MI is bordered by lakes that make travel difficult. Bordering Canada (no D2s) and Wisconsin (very limited D2 presence) boxes them into a corner. If there is a strong conference or conferences along the OH/IN border, it makes expansion beyond MI tough. Many of us did not even think about this vulnerability several years ago. But, I'm convinced that the GLIAC knew it existed.

I have little doubt that the GLIAC did not want a strong OH conference on its southern border. I don't think it was coincidence that most of the OH NAIA schools applying for D2 membership were declined the first time and had their acceptances awkwardly spread out over years (MVNU never got accepted and gave up). I don't think the D2 new-conference moratorium was a coincidence. I doubt that the "transitioning schools must be sponsored by an existing conference" rule was a coincidence. If a transitioning OH school made it through the hoops, the GLIAC then gave some membership safe-haven. Others were not as lucky and there was seemingly never enough "others" to create anything worthwhile.

I think NDC saw all of the above, and figured it could never survive as an "other". It also saw that the while the GLIAC was willing to let them be an affiliate member, it didn't seem keen on letting them in as a full member.

BTW - I don't say any of the above in a spiteful way. I honestly think the GLIAC had tremendous foresight and did a masterful job balancing its membership (MI/OH, public/private), using its influence, eliminating threats, deliberating between which OH schools to befriend and which to strand etc. It almost worked. It seems like it should have and sometimes I question why it didn't. Was it Trevecca and KWC stickling with the G-MAC when everyone said it didn't make sense? Was it the weird timing of the MEC/WVIAC split that took G-MAC members but then ended up giving the G-MAC back more temporary members than they lost? Was it Hillsdale aligning with the OH schools?

Did Cedarville and Ursuline secretly know that that the others were still coming even though it sure seemed like they had gotten comfy in the GLIAC?

I really want someone to write the book.

[Uindy18]

UIndy, I brought the conversation back here, as I don't think the GLIACers probably care what happened to NDC and the G-MAC circa 2011. Their obvious worry right now is retaining members.

If you put the pieces together from what is publicly known, we know that in 2009 the OH schools were thinking that Walsh, Malone, NDC, Cedarville, MVNU and Ursuline would start up the new conference and then other former MOC/AMC OH schools (probably plus LEC) would merge over after automatic bids were secured. If all went well, they were probably envisioning a Conference of Findlay, Tiffin, ODU, Walsh, Malone, NDC, LEC, Urbana, Central State, plus non-football schools of Cedarville, Mount Vernon Nazarene and Ursuline.

A lot happened between 2009 and 2011*

By October 2011, the new conference was now a much different grouping of NDC, Cedarville, Urbana, Central State, Ursuline and Kentucky Wesleyan.
ODU, LEC, Walsh and Malone were looking increasingly comfy in the GLIAC, and in November 2011, Trevecca was being added as a G-MAC member. I really think that NDC had a real tough time envisioning how the new conference could ever get the train back on track and turn into anything similar to the one listed above. Ursuline was the only school near NDC - and they only had women's sports. And CSU didn't sponsor many sports. - meaning that on the men's side - they were looking at just Cedarville and Urbana as OH opponents and then super long trips to TN and KY. Meanwhile, the GLIAC was starting to offer NDC more and more affiliate sports memberships and there was a potential path to full fledged GLIAC membership was becoming clearer. That full invite never materialized, and NDC jumped at the MEC invite (which took Urbana too).

---

*To be clear - If I knew the original OH schools' D2 conference plan (and I really don't have that many contacts), so did the GLIAC.

As we are seeing right now, despite its history, might, and being part of the establishment - the GLIAC is actually vulnerable. Its geography makes it vulnerable. MI is bordered by lakes that make travel difficult. Bordering Canada (no D2s) and Wisconsin (very limited D2 presence) boxes them into a corner. If there is a strong conference or conferences along the OH/IN border, it makes expansion beyond MI tough. Many of us did not even think about this vulnerability several years ago. But, I'm convinced that the GLIAC knew it existed.

I have little doubt that the GLIAC did not want a strong OH conference on its southern border. I don't think it was coincidence that most of the OH NAIA schools applying for D2 membership were declined the first time and had their acceptances awkwardly spread out over years (MVNU never got accepted and gave up). I don't think the D2 new-conference moratorium was a coincidence. I doubt that the "transitioning schools must be sponsored by an existing conference" rule was a coincidence. If a transitioning OH school made it through the hoops, the GLIAC then gave some membership safe-haven. Others were not as lucky and there was seemingly never enough "others" to create anything worthwhile.

I think NDC saw all of the above, and figured it could never survive as an "other". It also saw that the while the GLIAC was willing to let them be an affiliate member, it didn't seem keen on letting them in as a full member.

BTW - I don't say any of the above in a spiteful way. I honestly think the GLIAC had tremendous foresight and did a masterful job balancing its membership (MI/OH, public/private), using its influence, eliminating threats, deliberating between which OH schools to befriend and which to strand etc. It almost worked. It seems like it should have and sometimes I question why it didn't. Was it Trevecca and KWC stickling with the G-MAC when everyone said it didn't make sense? Was it the weird timing of the MEC/WVIAC split that took G-MAC members but then ended up giving the G-MAC back more temporary members than they lost? Was it Hillsdale aligning with the OH schools?

Did Cedarville and Ursuline secretly know that that the others were still coming even though it sure seemed like they had gotten comfy in the GLIAC?

I really want someone to write the book.

I would absolutely buy that book. I love all the inside baseball that goes into these conferences and who goes where. I am convinced this is what non-sports fans get out of soap operas.

As for the GLIAC future, you are absolutely right. They need to either embrace the "de facto D2 confernce of Michigan" title or risk falling apart like the old WVIAC. They desperately need to bring in some NAIA football schools and maybe even go after the Chicagoland area for expansion (non-football Lewis from the GLVC).

As for TNU, I am really perplexed on what they should do. They made the GMAC viable at first, but I do not see a future for them there.

As for KWC, I honestly think they will end up back in the GLVC sooner or later.

As for future of the GMAC, I am actively rooting for expansion to NDC and maybe growth into Indiana for my Uindy Greyhounds. I would love the addition of some NAIA powerhouses here in Indiana to pair with Uindy to create the GMAC Indiana wing of Uindy, Marian, and Saint Francis-FW. Maybe add Indiana Wesleyan and/or Taylor as well.

Thanks to BlueBlood for leading me over here. This type of discussion is the main reason I keep up on these message boards.