Attendance

[tsull]

I always like to check on hoops attendance and in D2 it's pretty static, usually averaging between 150 and 750 a game. Games of 1,000 or more are unique. Sure, lots of reasons why this lags: Division I obsession, internet, phones, cable TV, ESPN, other interests. I'm just always amazed how D2 can't improve in this area. A few years ago one couldn't find a schedule poster in tiny downtown Monmouth for WOU basketball. Not sure that's changed, I'm also not sure schedule posters make a difference in today's internet world.

I know in Nampa, Idaho, NNU does next to nothing to promote their basketball teams, men's or women's. I'm not sure why, I guess because this is how it's always been done. No radio spots, no schedule posters, etc. I think NNU has a pretty good product in men's and women's hoops. The local paper here has Boise State obsessions, they just gush over everything BSU, it's more like a fan page than a sports section. NNU, however, often gets ignored for the latest update on BSU's hiring of a graduate assistant waterboy.

More could be done by these D2 A.D.'s, in my opinion. Here are last night's attendance numbers:

Seattle Pacific -- 156 came to the Falcons win over MSU-Billings. Disappointing because the SPU team I saw play is fun to watch and plays with a lot of heart. They are down to eight players right now, but still playing tough. SPU athletic dept. needs to fix this.

UAA -- 695 -- OK hovering on the 700 mark, which I think should be the low-point for D2 hoops. Anchorage is a city, at last look not a lot of competition to watch live sports. They should be doing better.

UAF -- 287 -- Yikes! See above, something needs to be done. UAF has a solid club this year, too.

WOU -- 757 -- This is a good mark for WOU, but disappointing overall considering they're on a 9-game win streak and ranked in the top 10 in the country. I mentioned Dixie State's fantastic attendance numbers in another thread and the reply as to why it happens was winning. Well, WOU is on an incredible multi-year run right now for winning a lot, going back to the Brady Bergeson era; three years of Shaw and at least three of Bergeson of a lot of wins, 3 regional berths in that time, a few GNAC championships, and a rimmed-out jumper last year from winning another GNAC title. WOU students/Monmouth-Independence community needs to step up. They should be averaging 1,000.

* On Tuesday, SPU had 214 people in a loss. Last week NNU surprisingly got 925 in its win over UAA; and CWU put a nice 1,081 in its home loss to UAF.

[SValukis]

Re: Attendance

It definitely is about putting an effort forth and making attendance a priority. The teams in the west region that draw well usually put some kind of effort forward. It is disheartening to lear so many schools up in the pacific nw don't make an effort. D2 is good basketball and deserves better. Dixie and Cal Bap seem to be drawing very well, great numbers for d2 in fact, I saw the article from last week where clearly dixie made an effort to draw for the cal bap game and I am sure cal bap tries for their games as well. It is part winning (as people get more excited) and part effort.

[KTodd]

Re: Attendance

Great topic tsull. Son Ryan played for SPU and attendance was disappointing even when Coach Looney was there and they were winning GNAC titles and going to the tourney. Other than the WWU, Central, maybe St. Martin's games where local fans knew local kids on those squads, it was difficult to generate that overall gym/student buzz and enthusiasm.

Son Jason played last Monday in front of 4,368 for CBU in their battle vs APU. Fantastic atmosphere.

Each school has a budget, I get that. CBU does an amazing job of promoting involvement, I give them credit as they look to Grand Canyon as their future WAC example. Winning helps. The true test will be the next 4 years as they'll experience more L's than they're used to.

[tsull]

Re: Attendance

Great topic tsull. Son Ryan played for SPU and attendance was disappointing even when Coach Looney was there and they were winning GNAC titles and going to the tourney. Other than the WWU, Central, maybe St. Martin's games where local fans knew local kids on those squads, it was difficult to generate that overall gym/student buzz and enthusiasm.

Son Jason played last Monday in front of 4,368 for CBU in their battle vs APU. Fantastic atmosphere.

Each school has a budget, I get that. CBU does an amazing job of promoting involvement, I give them credit as they look to Grand Canyon as their future WAC example. Winning helps. The true test will be the next 4 years as they'll experience more L's than they're used to.

PacWest schools do particularly well, this is why the "too many options" argument doesn't work for me. there are a lot of options in SoCal. CBU, as noted, does great when I check their box scores. APU does quite well, too, I haven't checked them this year. Dixie is a freak show, 4K at the gate at least once a year, often over 3K, rarely under 1K.

The 4,368 Jason played for vs. APU sadly will not happen in the WAC unless it's GCU and NMSU. I wished they'd stayed D2. Low major D-1 isn't that great, despite the D-1annabees on the boards. (Not you, KTodd) The Big Sky draws horrifically, Sac State and Portland State have gyms worse than most junior highs. Also, if you make the big dance, welcome No. 16 seed and a 50-point first-round loss. I still think half of the 355 teams should be sent down to D2, but I've been killed by the D-1annabees on that. I think they should require a minimum gym of 5K and a miniumum average of 1,500 to stay up, at least one of the two. If not, bye-bye, down to D2.

But CBU is awesome at the gate as is Dixie and APU.

* WOU has won like crazy the last six years; stupid Monmouth/Independence won't wake up. Are they going to the "exciting" (sarcasm alert) city of Salem? Wow, can't wait to get mugged by low-rent gangsters in downtown Salem.

[KTodd]

Re: Attendance

PacWest schools do particularly well, this is why the "too many options" argument doesn't work for me. there are a lot of options in SoCal. CBU, as noted, does great when I check their box scores. APU does quite well, too, I haven't checked them this year. Dixie is a freak show, 4K at the gate at least once a year, often over 3K, rarely under 1K.

The 4,368 Jason played for vs. APU sadly will not happen in the WAC unless it's GCU and NMSU. I wished they'd stayed D2. Low major D-1 isn't that great, despite the D-1annabees on the boards. (Not you, KTodd) The Big Sky draws horrifically, Sac State and Portland State have gyms worse than most junior highs. Also, if you make the big dance, welcome No. 16 seed and a 50-point first-round loss. I still think half of the 355 teams should be sent down to D2, but I've been killed by the D-1annabees on that. I think they should require a minimum gym of 5K and a miniumum average of 1,500 to stay up, at least one of the two. If not, bye-bye, down to D2.

But CBU is awesome at the gate as is Dixie and APU.

* WOU has won like crazy the last six years; stupid Monmouth/Independence won't wake up. Are they going to the "exciting" (sarcasm alert) city of Salem? Wow, can't wait to get mugged by low-rent gangsters in downtown Salem.

tsull, my .02 is that CBU, the students and community will miss the Azuza, Point Loma, Concordia and Dixie rivalries when they leave the PacWest. Those are built-in 'big games', well attended, all solid programs with good coaching and soon they'll all go away. What kind of rivalry will CBU have with Chicago St, UMKC or UTRGV? None. Just another conference game in an odd geographical conference.

I've experienced the low D1 as I drove down to Portland for two years to watch games. Was it cool when Gonzaga and BYU came to town? Sure. Pacific or LMU? Not so much. The difference, like you say, is very small. Matter of fact, a few months ago CBU beat San Diego by 12 in one of those pre-season 'secret scrimmages'. The kids are really really close in talent with the exception being a little size and athleticism.

Finally, I'm hoping CBU finds a way into the tourney as I have a hunch I'll be driving south to WO. Would love to see Jason match-up vs Tanner, just to see their motors run. Complete respect.

[tsull]

Re: Attendance

tsull, my .02 is that CBU, the students and community will miss the Azuza, Point Loma, Concordia and Dixie rivalries when they leave the PacWest. Those are built-in 'big games', well attended, all solid programs with good coaching and soon they'll all go away. What kind of rivalry will CBU have with Chicago St, UMKC or UTRGV? None. Just another conference game in an odd geographical conference.

I've experienced the low D1 as I drove down to Portland for two years to watch games. Was it cool when Gonzaga and BYU came to town? Sure. Pacific or LMU? Not so much. The difference, like you say, is very small. Matter of fact, a few months ago CBU beat San Diego by 12 in one of those pre-season 'secret scrimmages'. The kids are really really close in talent with the exception being a little size and athleticism.

Finally, I'm hoping CBU finds a way into the tourney as I have a hunch I'll be driving south to WO. Would love to see Jason match-up vs Tanner, just to see their motors run. Complete respect.

I can see the lure of d-1 and D2 schools that are ready to transition. I don't understand schools like Sac State and PSU, who have gyms of 1,500 seating and 6-figure A.D.'s, who can't get the programs off the mat. I don't get schools like LMU, which are living off one nice NCAA run more than 30 years ago and have done nothing, despite being in the talent-rich L.A. area. Just baffling ... same with Univ. of Portland, Northern Colorado, Santa Clara, etc. I don't get not trying.

[northernGNAChoopfan]

Re: Attendance

I always like to check on hoops attendance and in D2 it's pretty static, usually averaging between 150 and 750 a game. Games of 1,000 or more are unique. Sure, lots of reasons why this lags: Division I obsession, internet, phones, cable TV, ESPN, other interests. I'm just always amazed how D2 can't improve in this area. A few years ago one couldn't find a schedule poster in tiny downtown Monmouth for WOU basketball. Not sure that's changed, I'm also not sure schedule posters make a difference in today's internet world.

I know in Nampa, Idaho, NNU does next to nothing to promote their basketball teams, men's or women's. I'm not sure why, I guess because this is how it's always been done. No radio spots, no schedule posters, etc. I think NNU has a pretty good product in men's and women's hoops. The local paper here has Boise State obsessions, they just gush over everything BSU, it's more like a fan page than a sports section. NNU, however, often gets ignored for the latest update on BSU's hiring of a graduate assistant waterboy.

More could be done by these D2 A.D.'s, in my opinion. Here are last night's attendance numbers:

Seattle Pacific -- 156 came to the Falcons win over MSU-Billings. Disappointing because the SPU team I saw play is fun to watch and plays with a lot of heart. They are down to eight players right now, but still playing tough. SPU athletic dept. needs to fix this.

UAA -- 695 -- OK hovering on the 700 mark, which I think should be the low-point for D2 hoops. Anchorage is a city, at last look not a lot of competition to watch live sports. They should be doing better.

UAF -- 287 -- Yikes! See above, something needs to be done. UAF has a solid club this year, too.

WOU -- 757 -- This is a good mark for WOU, but disappointing overall considering they're on a 9-game win streak and ranked in the top 10 in the country. I mentioned Dixie State's fantastic attendance numbers in another thread and the reply as to why it happens was winning. Well, WOU is on an incredible multi-year run right now for winning a lot, going back to the Brady Bergeson era; three years of Shaw and at least three of Bergeson of a lot of wins, 3 regional berths in that time, a few GNAC championships, and a rimmed-out jumper last year from winning another GNAC title. WOU students/Monmouth-Independence community needs to step up. They should be averaging 1,000.

* On Tuesday, SPU had 214 people in a loss. Last week NNU surprisingly got 925 in its win over UAA; and CWU put a nice 1,081 in its home loss to UAF.

Hey Tsull~I appreciate your passion on this front and of course, I wholeheartedly see the value in D2 ball. I don't miss a game for much. As for UAF's attendance, I'm like, well, we're beating SPU on attendance and they are in the middle of Seattle. We're up in Interior Alaska where most of this town lives and breathes hockey or nordic skiing. We have a DI hockey team that gets everything they want on a silver platter. Man, I sometimes think how many more scholarships and $ the ball sports could have if we dropped hockey. Hockey fans would have my head if they heard that. Winning is really inconsistent in Fairbanks, we don't have an AD as of Sunday and Mick probably came to D2 so he didn't have to worry about attendance and just coach ball. Alaska is going broke (and I'm a broken record) and Alaskan's largely don't value education at any level, and thus our University and K-12 education cut back year after year. Honestly, just competing at this level right now with Alaskan's on our roster makes me very happy. It's depressing when I read about the CBUs, APUs, Dixies and WOU. We'll see if anyone is interesting in being an AD here soon... :bulgy-eyes:

[tsull]

Re: Attendance

Saturday's marks:

UAF vs. SFU in Fairbanks -- 228 -- Ugh! UAF needs to promote the program better.

CWU vs. Concordia in Portland -- 402 -- Typical CU crowd, no PDX buzz, local paper and online Oregonlive doesn't cover them. Just guessing: No promotion at all online or in their local neighborhood.

WOU vs. NNU in Monmouth -- 816 -- Good crowd for a 4 p.m. game, should be more, IMO. Will never understand the lazy Monmouth-Independence community, they're lucky they have a college in the community because they sure don't act like they care.

WWU vs. UAA in Anchorage -- 875 -- OK, but Anchorage is a big city, though I'm guessing they think they're too big for D2. Who knows? My cutoff point is 750-800, below 700 is weak, anything above 800 is a bonus in GNAC/D2 hoops.

St. Martin's vs. MSU-B in Lacey -- 1,305 -- We have a winner! Maybe Lacey/Olympia is waking up that a good team is in their midst. Guessing the largest crowd of the GNAC season, but I'm not sure, I think NN-College of Idaho was 1,900, that was non-league play, of course.

[tsull]

Re: Attendance

Without any prompting from me, a co-worker today said he saw NNU hoop highlights on the news and he said, "No one was at the game except a bunch of old people in different pockets of the gym."

Why doesn't NNU at least attempt to fix this problem? Small colleges are often without marketing departments, so it's the A.D.'s job to crank it up, right? I don't get not trying ... that goes for a lot of GNAC schools. Do they just expect the fans to show up?

[tsull]

Re: Attendance

Cal Baptist gets 1,559 at the gate last night in a win over Academy of Arts -- and I thought NNU's 1,200 crowd was impressive.

Biola's grand entrance into D2 this year netted just more than 400 at the gate in its last game.

[schnautza]

Re: Attendance

Seeing this thread makes me feel a lot better about our attendance. While it has fallen significantly over the last decade, we are averaging 1330 at home at Southern Indiana this year. If you look at conference games only, we are averaging 1624. Our best so far this year is 2437.

Due to some quirks in scheduling this year in the GLVC, we've only had two home games in-conference on a Saturday (avg = 2356), which is much better attended than our Thursdays (avg = 1380).

Non-conference home games have averaged 910.

We only have one home game remaining and it is against our top rival, Bellarmine, this Saturday. I expect a sellout (about 2700).

[tsull]

Re: Attendance

Seeing this thread makes me feel a lot better about our attendance. While it has fallen significantly over the last decade, we are averaging 1330 at home at Southern Indiana this year. If you look at conference games only, we are averaging 1624. Our best so far this year is 2437.

Due to some quirks in scheduling this year in the GLVC, we've only had two home games in-conference on a Saturday (avg = 2356), which is much better attended than our Thursdays (avg = 1380).

Non-conference home games have averaged 910.

We only have one home game remaining and it is against our top rival, Bellarmine, this Saturday. I expect a sellout (about 2700).

Impressive numbers at Southern Indiana. I dream of a 1,330 average -- and WOU is No. 4 in the nation. The sleepy Rip Van Winkles in Monmouth can't find their way to the gym and the free parking in the huge football lot right across the street, as well as the cheap ticket and concession prices, as well as great basketball. Also, impressive to average 1,624 in conference, that's huge ... and 2,437 is awesome for one game. Close to Dixie numbers.

[schnautza]

Re: Attendance

Impressive numbers at Southern Indiana. I dream of a 1,330 average -- and WOU is No. 4 in the nation. The sleepy Rip Van Winkles in Monmouth can't find their way to the gym and the free parking in the huge football lot right across the street, as well as the cheap ticket and concession prices, as well as great basketball. Also, impressive to average 1,624 in conference, that's huge ... and 2,437 is awesome for one game. Close to Dixie numbers.

They are currently building a new arena on campus with a capacity of 4800, expected to open in the fall. I hope we can fill it halfway...it will be nice but probably will feel very empty for a good portion of the year.

[Rob_AK]

Re: Attendance

Impressive numbers at Southern Indiana. I dream of a 1,330 average -- and WOU is No. 4 in the nation. The sleepy Rip Van Winkles in Monmouth can't find their way to the gym and the free parking in the huge football lot right across the street, as well as the cheap ticket and concession prices, as well as great basketball. Also, impressive to average 1,624 in conference, that's huge ... and 2,437 is awesome for one game. Close to Dixie numbers.

Maybe WOU should go D1, then maybe locals would pay attention.

[tsull]

Re: Attendance

Maybe WOU should go D1, then maybe locals would pay attention.

WOU doesn't have the money, would go 0-10 in football and 0-25 in hoops ... then the fans REALLY wouldn't come out. If they're not coming out because they're not D-1, they're insane. They're No. 4 in the nation. Then again, those D-1 schools in Portland -- PSU and UP -- pack them in to the tune of 500-800 fans per game. Yeah, that's the ticket.

The locals aren't paying attention period and where in the h-ll did you think WOU has the infrastructure to go D-1?