Coaching change?

[tsull]

It's all over the Washington State University message boards that Jim Shaw (WOU head coach) will be hired this week as an assistant at WSU. I grew up and lived in that area for a long time and people I know up there on the Palouse also confirm it. Not official yet as neither is the announcement of another WSU asst., Derrick Phelps, who has been tweeting that he's recruiting for WSU.

If true, I hope WOU can hit it out of the park (or should I say slam dunk?) again on another hire. They've had two great back-to-back hires in Bergeson and Shaw and that's been the key to the rise of the program. I like the WOU A.D. and hope he can find another great one. I'm hoping not an inter-conference hire, something not too provincial. Shaw was an alum, but had been at a bunch of D-1 schools, including UW, Oklahoma, St. Mary's, Portland, Montana State, etc. Bergeson was an assistant at Sac State. Good coaches are everywhere, just have to find them. Bad coaches are everywhere, too, unfortunately.

* Wonder what's up with the Concordia search?

[northernGNAChoopfan]

Re: Coaching change?

Man, Shaw sure does move around a lot.... Even if he was just applying for the CWU job last year and is just applying for this one... The guy ponders change a lot!

[tsull]

Re: Coaching change?

Man, Shaw sure does move around a lot.... Even if he was just applying for the CWU job last year and is just applying for this one... The guy ponders change a lot!

WOU lucky to get him for four years. If I recall his coaching ladder it was OSU grad asst., Chemeketa CC, then Idaho State, I think Southern Utah somewhere, Montana State, University of Portland, Oklahoma, UW, St. Mary's, WOU ... and now maybe WSU. Great coach, doesn't stay in one place for long.

I understand this possible move, I thought the CWU inquiry (and maybe offer) last year was total B.S. Still, an awesome coach, IMO, the best WOU's ever had. If he leaves, it will be tough to find someone as good.

[MrGNAC]

Re: Coaching change?

WOU lucky to get him for four years. If I recall his coaching ladder it was OSU grad asst., Chemeketa CC, then Idaho State, I think Southern Utah somewhere, Montana State, University of Portland, Oklahoma, UW, St. Mary's, WOU ... and now maybe WSU. Great coach, doesn't stay in one place for long.

I understand this possible move, I thought the CWU inquiry (and maybe offer) last year was total B.S. Still, an awesome coach, IMO, the best WOU's ever had. If he leaves, it will be tough to find someone as good.

He will make a lot more money at WSU and has a previous connection with Smith - both were on the bench at St. Mary's. Not hard to understand the move.

[tsull]

Re: Coaching change?

He will make a lot more money at WSU and has a previous connection with Smith - both were on the bench at St. Mary's. Not hard to understand the move.

Yeah, a lot more dough, though I'd really tire of being an assistant for so many years. The problem is D-1's are biased against hiring D2 coaches. Before the D1annabes come in here, I like D-1, I covered D-1 extensively as a sportswriter, including WSU; and I've covered small college. Some D-1 coaches are great, some are awful. Shaw has been runner-up for a number of D-1 jobs, IMO, he could easily coach D-1 as a head coach. Frankly, I'm not sure the new WSU hire is infinitely better than Shaw. I think the St. Martin's coach could definitely coach D-1, as could Ryan Looney and others. The Cal Baptist coach didn't have a ton of problems in the D-1 adjustment this year. The issue is if they hire a D2 coach and that person fails, the A.D. takes a lot of heat.

Best of luck to Jim Shaw ... that is if he is indeed taking this job. I hope he stays at WOU.

[MrGNAC]

Re: Coaching change?

Yeah, a lot more dough, though I'd really tire of being an assistant for so many years. The problem is D-1's are biased against hiring D2 coaches. Before the D1annabes come in here, I like D-1, I covered D-1 extensively as a sportswriter, including WSU; and I've covered small college. Some D-1 coaches are great, some are awful. Shaw has been runner-up for a number of D-1 jobs, IMO, he could easily coach D-1 as a head coach. Frankly, I'm not sure the new WSU hire is infinitely better than Shaw. I think the St. Martin's coach could definitely coach D-1, as could Ryan Looney and others. The Cal Baptist coach didn't have a ton of problems in the D-1 adjustment this year. The issue is if they hire a D2 coach and that person fails, the A.D. takes a lot of heat.

Best of luck to Jim Shaw ... that is if he is indeed taking this job. I hope he stays at WOU.

Having lived all over the country, I find very little difference between Westcoast D2 and lower-level/lower tier Eastcoast D1. I also think the gap is decreasing as teams like CBU, Dixie State and UCSD make the jump to D1. The biggest difference is the commitment to spend on facilities. I think that for Shaw, the money and the ability to get back into a P5 assistant job is alluring. Coaching at Western Oregon can't be easy.

[tsull]

Re: Coaching change?

Having lived all over the country, I find very little difference between Westcoast D2 and lower-level/lower tier Eastcoast D1. I also think the gap is decreasing as teams like CBU, Dixie State and UCSD make the jump to D1. The biggest difference is the commitment to spend on facilities. I think that for Shaw, the money and the ability to get back into a P5 assistant job is alluring. Coaching at Western Oregon can't be easy.

Coaching hoops at WOU has been a little easier the last few years since now they're almost (or maybe are) fully funded scholarship-wise. Facilities are solid for D2 and the location is good for recruiting. The fan support waivers from outstanding at regionals to sub-par during the regular season.

WSU is the worst Power 5/6 job in America. There is no basketball operations facility and no plans to build one. The school is going to be $85M in athletic debt soon, and they averaged around 2K last year, but many, many games were below 1K. On TV it looked awful. There are no charter flights either to the most remote Power 5/6 school in America. I'm from the area, even born in Pullman, I don't mind it, but it's no garden spot. Given all things equal, WOU is an easier job in D2 than WSU is in D1.

Coach Smith was a nice hire, but he's in the middle of a five-year rebuild right now. The hope I think is to get to .500 by year four, yes, it's that bad. Ernie Kent basically rolled out the balls there, collected a fat paycheck, and had his contract rolled over THREE times by his former A.D. buddy, boozer Bill Moos. Kent got rolled over after going 1-17 in conference one year, pure insanity.

That said, Shaw has probably one last gasp to get a D-1 head coaching job, moving to WSU might help ... emphasis on might.

[MrGNAC]

Re: Coaching change?

Coaching hoops at WOU has been a little easier the last few years since now they're almost (or maybe are) fully funded scholarship-wise. Facilities are solid for D2 and the location is good for recruiting. The fan support waivers from outstanding at regionals to sub-par during the regular season.

WSU is the worst Power 5/6 job in America. There is no basketball operations facility and no plans to build one. The school is going to be $85M in athletic debt soon, and they averaged around 2K last year, but many, many games were below 1K. On TV it looked awful. There are no charter flights either to the most remote Power 5/6 school in America. I'm from the area, even born in Pullman, I don't mind it, but it's no garden spot. Given all things equal, WOU is an easier job in D2 than WSU is in D1.

Coach Smith was a nice hire, but he's in the middle of a five-year rebuild right now. The hope I think is to get to .500 by year four, yes, it's that bad. Ernie Kent basically rolled out the balls there, collected a fat paycheck, and had his contract rolled over THREE times by his former A.D. buddy, boozer Bill Moos. Kent got rolled over after going 1-17 in conference one year, pure insanity.

That said, Shaw has probably one last gasp to get a D-1 head coaching job, moving to WSU might help ... emphasis on might.

I disagree that it is that bad of a job. The Pac-12 is awful right now, so the rebuild might not take as long. With only Washington and Oregon in good shape from a program standpoint. If you look at the previous Wazzu coaches, they all failed when their primary strategy was to recruit Seattle. Each year, there are a handful of players who could play anywhere and then its a scramble for the rest. Bennett didn't follow this strategy at all. And look how everything has worked out for him.

[tsull]

Re: Coaching change?

I disagree that it is that bad of a job. The Pac-12 is awful right now, so the rebuild might not take as long. With only Washington and Oregon in good shape from a program standpoint. If you look at the previous Wazzu coaches, they all failed when their primary strategy was to recruit Seattle. Each year, there are a handful of players who could play anywhere and then its a scramble for the rest. Bennett didn't follow this strategy at all. And look how everything has worked out for him.

Sorry, I know a lot of people involved in this program, in the athletic dept., the missteps by admin, been following them for decades, it's going to take awhile to rebuild, even in a down Pac-12. They hit lightning in a bottle with Tony Bennett, he was the No. 4 asst. at Wisconsin before coming to WSU to work for his dad. No one knew he would do that well. Kent tried to recruit Washington (Franks, Flynn, Elleby), not just Seattle. Bone and Kent were successful before coming to Pullman. Bennett is an outlier, not an example. The program has no basketball operation building -- Utah has a $23M one, Oregon State has a 3-story one, UW is swimming in money, etc. The league won't stay down long, UA just signed the No. 1 recruiting class, UW has TWO five-stars coming in next year, one a Kentucky transfer.

Recruiting strategies only work if you have $$$ behind you, and facilities. WSU has neither. I think Smith was a good hire, he has a tough road ahead of him. Trust me, it's a bad job right now, drawing 500 a game near the end with 20,000 students a short walk away from the gym. Things don't happen in a vacume. Tony also worked a decade ago before basketball operations building and chartered flight. He knew this after going 17-16 his last year with two NBA starters in the lineup and a high Euro guy in Rochestie, and two very good other starters. He knew WSU didn't have the juice to play big boy basketball. Still don't, unfortunately ... and I'm a Cougar fan.

[tsull]

Re: Coaching change?

Well, the WOU job is officially open as they have the job announcement listed, though neither the WSU nor WOU sites have Shaw leaving or hired. Guessing just waiting on paperwork. Hoping they can make it three outstanding hires in a row, though that might be very tough.