Small colleges can develop a new identity

[tsull]

I'm a Washington State fan I also follow the OSU Beavers really closely and the Idaho Vandals. All three of those schools have struggled with all the new rules regarding big time college athletics. Washington State and Oregon State obviously got left behind in conference reconstruction. Idaho recently lost about 25 to 30 guys in the portal, of course so did Washington State

I've always thought small colleges should have a total different model than big schools but they often hire their athletic directors who have Masters in sports administration from big schools. This is a chance for small colleges to really develop more of a community feel. I've been saying this for years.

Look at almost small college roster in the state of Oregon in any sport, and they flat out ignore the state. I don't know why. A friend of mine had a son who wanted to play division 3 baseball and contacted some Oregon schools, no takers, and each of the schools had zero Oregon kids on their rosters. My friend's son eventually played division 2 ball in the Midwest and did well.

Speaking for Western oregon, our men's and women's basketball coaches pretty much ignore the state unless a player has gone to a community college. With a lot of people being upset at the new division one, where the only thing that matters is money, small colleges division 2 on down really have a chance to remake their identity and have a local feel. I like that Western Oregon has reduced some of their ticket prices it appears. Their next step is to get more in-state kids. They could tell me I'm wrong on this, but right now the out of state kids are producing really bad records in basketball, certainly more on the men's side right now.

I'm really hoping that not only does my alma mater change some of their ways, but I hope all the small colleges in the Northwest try to change what they're doing and look more towards the people who are supporting their colleges. That would be the people in their respective states. I know a lot of people would probably disagree with me and say they got to recruit more California. I understand some of that, there's a lot of talent in California and in football there's no division 2 schools. But here's a chance for a small college athletic directors to really look at their product and see what they can do to get more local interest.

[Goods]

The product is good. I watched the CWU women host Anchorage and both teams have stars, both teams have great starters. It was a great game. The stands weren't packed.........maybe a couple hundred........but the fans there were passionate and entertained. So the product is covered. CWU's game-day experience has evolved as well with a video board to do games by pulling someone from the stands to keep the timeouts interactive. Opening announcements of starters include cool videos, spotlights and a darkened arena. Again, pretty cool. As long as that keeps fresh, that's good too. Tim, you've mentioned in the past about making it easy for families to bring their kids and I agree: allow kids under XX get in for free or significantly reduced so it's impossible to say "too expensive." CWU does a family pass (they need to advertise it better, but it's there) for individual seasons and then a year-long pass for athletics. CWU's completely renovated Nicholson Arena seats probably 3500 now and it looks pretty cavernous when it's got less than a thousand.

But the D2 product is good.

[D2Hoopster]

Tsull to your point about instate players -

This year there are 3/15 players from Oregon and in the 2015-2016 Final Four team under Coach Shaw, 11/17 were from Oregon.

[Runnin' Cat]

The product is good. I watched the CWU women host Anchorage and both teams have stars, both teams have great starters. It was a great game. The stands weren't packed.........maybe a couple hundred........but the fans there were passionate and entertained. So the product is covered. CWU's game-day experience has evolved as well with a video board to do games by pulling someone from the stands to keep the timeouts interactive. Opening announcements of starters include cool videos, spotlights and a darkened arena. Again, pretty cool. As long as that keeps fresh, that's good too. Tim, you've mentioned in the past about making it easy for families to bring their kids and I agree: allow kids under XX get in for free or significantly reduced so it's impossible to say "too expensive." CWU does a family pass (they need to advertise it better, but it's there) for individual seasons and then a year-long pass for athletics. CWU's completely renovated Nicholson Arena seats probably 3500 now and it looks pretty cavernous when it's got less than a thousand.

But the D2 product is good.

Do they have senior discount passes?...

[Goods]

Do they have senior discount passes?...

No, but the basketball arena has these potato jo-jo things that are good when dipped in whatever it comes with. It's better than a discount.

[tsull]

The product is good. I watched the CWU women host Anchorage and both teams have stars, both teams have great starters. It was a great game. The stands weren't packed.........maybe a couple hundred........but the fans there were passionate and entertained. So the product is covered. CWU's game-day experience has evolved as well with a video board to do games by pulling someone from the stands to keep the timeouts interactive. Opening announcements of starters include cool videos, spotlights and a darkened arena. Again, pretty cool. As long as that keeps fresh, that's good too. Tim, you've mentioned in the past about making it easy for families to bring their kids and I agree: allow kids under XX get in for free or significantly reduced so it's impossible to say "too expensive." CWU does a family pass (they need to advertise it better, but it's there) for individual seasons and then a year-long pass for athletics. CWU's completely renovated Nicholson Arena seats probably 3500 now and it looks pretty cavernous when it's got less than a thousand.

But the D2 product is good.

Really great post, Goods, and I'm glad CWU is cranking up the game day atmosphere. It sounds awesome. It's the only game in town and the only game for miles around actually so that's really great that the Wildcats are doing that. I've always enjoyed the football atmosphere in Ellensburg, I think it's tremendous, especially with the marching band.

It is a good product, there's a lot of talent out there in division 2. The average fan just thinks professional and high-level D1 Sports is where it's at. I like the reasonably priced tickets and concessions and easy parking at division 2 and small college athletics. I also think it's a great product. I'd like to see colleges promote it more. They don't have robust marketing departments but maybe use their own students in business classes to help get the word out.

I remember going to a real top notch men's basketball game several years ago when Western Oregon was at Seattle Pacific. My Seattle friends and I walked around the Queen Anne neighborhood and there wasn't one poster about Seattle Pacific athletics. I asked one person at a restaurant if they knew a game was going on and they said no. It was really dark in the neighborhood, not many lights and SPU had no presence, it was very strange. My friends greatly enjoyed the game and it was highly competitive, went into overtime. It was a solid crowd, not huge but a lot of fun. Of course there was no Seattle media coverage at all. But SPU could have helped itself with just promoting it in their own local neighborhood, one of the best neighborhoods in Seattle. Nevertheless, I think division 2 and small College athletics is highly underrated and could be better promoted. It is a great product. Thanks, Goods, and others for responding.

[Runnin' Cat]

Really great post, Goods, and I'm glad CWU is cranking up the game day atmosphere. It sounds awesome. It's the only game in town and the only game for miles around actually so that's really great that the Wildcats are doing that. I've always enjoyed the football atmosphere in Ellensburg, I think it's tremendous, especially with the marching band.

It is a good product, there's a lot of talent out there in division 2. The average fan just thinks professional and high-level D1 Sports is where it's at. I like the reasonably priced tickets and concessions and easy parking at division 2 and small college athletics. I also think it's a great product. I'd like to see colleges promote it more. They don't have robust marketing departments but maybe use their own students in business classes to help get the word out.

I remember going to a real top notch men's basketball game several years ago when Western Oregon was at Seattle Pacific. My Seattle friends and I walked around the Queen Anne neighborhood and there wasn't one poster about Seattle Pacific athletics. I asked one person at a restaurant if they knew a game was going on and they said no. It was really dark in the neighborhood, not many lights and SPU had no presence, it was very strange. My friends greatly enjoyed the game and it was highly competitive, went into overtime. It was a solid crowd, not huge but a lot of fun. Of course there was no Seattle media coverage at all. But SPU could have helped itself with just promoting it in their own local neighborhood, one of the best neighborhoods in Seattle. Nevertheless, I think division 2 and small College athletics is highly underrated and could be better promoted. It is a great product. Thanks, Goods, and others for responding.

It used to be that SPU got a lot of press in the old P-I and Times. I remember making the drive with my dad to watch games at Royal Brougham. The papers always had an article on their games and the SPU (SPC at that time) sports, especially T&F, soccer, and hoops.

[D2Rover]

Many random related thoughts:

Western started letting in Students for free last year and got an initial boost from it, although it seems to have dropped a little this year. For atmosphere and gameday experience, Volleyball actually tends to be the best sport at Western.

I talked to a long-time coach (now retired) at a conference tournament in Oklahoma a few years back who pointed to a team with three local kids in the starting lineup and basically said "that's what D2 ball is supposed to be". He thought it was important for the sake of getting the community to support the team, but also to have guys who understood the culture of the school and community. He was an assistant for a school with almost all out-of-state guys and said coaching at this level just isn't the same when nobody on the team is connected to the larger community.

I think there could be some value in a total rebranding of D2 to get away from acknowledging the second-tier status in the title. Much like Division 1-AA becoming FCS. People like us understand what D2 is and know that it is a good quality product (at least in parts of the country), but I think getting new people in the door would be somewhat easier if the whole league wasn't labelled as being second rate.

Good streaming helps too. Being able to watch decent quality streams on Youtube for free has helped me stay in touch with the GNAC in a way I never would have done if it was behind a paywall. Here in MIAA territory we pay $125 a year for worse streaming quality. This new FloCollege thing a bunch of conferences are going to is better than any of the other paid services, at least appears to have some base standards for quality.

[tsull]

Many random related thoughts:

Western started letting in Students for free last year and got an initial boost from it, although it seems to have dropped a little this year. For atmosphere and gameday experience, Volleyball actually tends to be the best sport at Western.

I talked to a long-time coach (now retired) at a conference tournament in Oklahoma a few years back who pointed to a team with three local kids in the starting lineup and basically said "that's what D2 ball is supposed to be". He thought it was important for the sake of getting the community to support the team, but also to have guys who understood the culture of the school and community. He was an assistant for a school with almost all out-of-state guys and said coaching at this level just isn't the same when nobody on the team is connected to the larger community.

I think there could be some value in a total rebranding of D2 to get away from acknowledging the second-tier status in the title. Much like Division 1-AA becoming FCS. People like us understand what D2 is and know that it is a good quality product (at least in parts of the country), but I think getting new people in the door would be somewhat easier if the whole league wasn't labelled as being second rate.

Good streaming helps too. Being able to watch decent quality streams on Youtube for free has helped me stay in touch with the GNAC in a way I never would have done if it was behind a paywall. Here in MIAA territory we pay $125 a year for worse streaming quality. This new FloCollege thing a bunch of conferences are going to is better than any of the other paid services, at least appears to have some base standards for quality.

Really a lot of great things to take away in Rover's post. I especially like the part about recruiting locally. Western Oregon has often gone to far flung recruiting areas to get last or at best middle of the pack in conference.

I do find it interesting that our two first eam all Americans and West Coast players of the year in basketball (in the last decade) were from Monmouth, where the college is located; and Woodburn, about 35 miles up the road. If those guys were coming out of high school with the current Western coach, he would not have given them a single look. His recruiting philosophy, if there is one, is probably ending his career in Monmouth. I know quite a few prep coaches in the state who just don't understand why he won't recruit Oregon kids. So we go to California to get a bunch of guys who can finish last in the conference. Just crazy stuff. Our women's coach does the same thing.

Really great Insight on the division 2 label. Maybe they could call it the college division or the collegiate division or something.

It's really all about having a community and regional feel. None of the GNAC schools are UCLA or Michigan. Let's get a reality check. But for some reason they think they are or at least their administrations think they are. Let's step back a bit then look at the big picture and build something that's really great for the local area in which you reside. Thanks for the awesome post, Rover.

[KamolaCat]

CWU has had an Ellensburg grad on the women's basketball roster every year since 2016-17. Ellensburg has had some good teams but most of these women are not playing a lot of minutes when they become Wildcats but they are locals through and through. Parents, EHS, EHS basketball, their new team, recruits, Central students and any others can see the progression of the player the community bond and the spirit of a small state college.

[D2Rover]

CWU has had an Ellensburg grad on the women's basketball roster every year since 2016-17. Ellensburg has had some good teams but most of these women are not playing a lot of minutes when they become Wildcats but they are locals through and through. Parents, EHS, EHS basketball, their new team, recruits, Central students and any others can see the progression of the player the community bond and the spirit of a small state college.

WWU women have at least 4 kids from Whatcom County right now, and are always majority in-state. They've recently done a great job of getting WA kids that go to out of state D1s and want to transfer back home.

Men have more out-of-state players but tend to always have at least a couple of local NW WA kids.

Volleyball coach has been here 25 years, made multiple Elite Eights and National Championship games, and I believe has never had an out-of-state player. If you know how to build a program, you can do it with local kids.

[tsull]

WWU women have at least 4 kids from Whatcom County right now, and are always majority in-state. They've recently done a great job of getting WA kids that go to out of state D1s and want to transfer back home.

Men have more out-of-state players but tend to always have at least a couple of local NW WA kids.

Volleyball coach has been here 25 years, made multiple Elite Eights and National Championship games, and I believe has never had an out-of-state player. If you know how to build a program, you can do it with local kids.

I like hearing stories like this. I'm not against taking out of state players at all but the majority of any Western Oregon team should be Oregonians. The state taxpayers fund our university.

The worst scenario is what's going on now in that they completely ignore the high school players in the state, go to California and Washington so they can finish in dead last. It's really embarrassing, this is the worst team in 50 or 60 years in Monmouth after looking at th record book.

The coach is only the second Western Oregon coach in 45 years to have a losing season. They've long been the most successful small college basketball program in the state with very few down years and this is the worst.

It seems like if you're losing like crazy with your same recruiting philosophy, maybe it's time to change it.