How can we encourage more OOC games

[cwfenn]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

Another challenge is cost. A lot of D2 schools are regional state schools who have decreasing budgets. That means less money to take 75 people on an overnight trip. Very few D2 schools produce enough revenue to give a guarantee. This is especially an issue in regions where schools insist on noon kickoffs. If you're six hours apart you're not leaving a 4am for a noon kickoff.

[NewCatEyez]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

Nothing will change unless the NCAA changes playoff criteria to reflect a favorable outcome in seeding for ooc games.

Definitely

Silo scheduling makes it so much easier for teams. Costs are reduced because if the repetitive nature of it all. Same hotel every other year. same number of road games every other year etc. Thats with all the sports not just football.

This part for the most part just simply isn't true for almost all conferences except for the few teams in the direct middle of the conference. The rest of the conference all have their costs increased. The NSIC and GAC are the only two conferences I can think of in SR3 or SR4 that have kept a mostly intact schedule for any length of time trying to go this route. The rest of the conferences are all on a merry go round of teams as they keep getting bigger and bigger footprints causing teams to bounce around to try and minimize the impact of that.

The MIAA schedule is a joke now with no consistency in travel as they have to revamp the schedule every few years to get teams out and teams in. On paper it works the way the conferences play it up as and the way you are seeing it but in actuality it rarely plays out that way.

[Boohaha]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

Nothing will change unless the NCAA changes playoff criteria to reflect a favorable outcome in seeding for ooc games. Silo scheduling makes it so much easier for teams. Costs are reduced because if the repetitive nature of it all. Same hotel every other year. same number of road games every other year etc. Thats with all the sports not just football.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

That post was definitely not with NW colored glasses on and if it came across that way it wasn't intended. The MIAA has hosed basically the entirety of SR3 and SR4 from close OOC and thus forced more into silo scheduling. NW is included in that blame. Their public face was helping cut costs when about 20 minutes of research showed that expenses and travel times have increased with the silo scheduling in football. They are doing the exact opposite of what they say they are doing and simply making the scheduling a lazy non factor.

The RMAC, LSC, GAC, GLVC and NSIC are all being punished for the MIAA removing themselves from OOC potential matchups. I'm definitely not going to waste the time on running through all MIAA team schedules but Pitt, Emporia and Southern are the only three I can think that likely had travel costs lowered and that is likely more from teams like Truman leaving (as their travel would have exploded). While we all joke about Lindenwood tucking tail and running from the MIAA the travel comparisons for them aren't even close when looking at the GLVC vs MIAA. Hays, UCO and Kearney are all ~500 miles, Indianapolis is 300 miles.

Any conference in the northeast is within short drives of many other conferences and shouldn't be an issue at all. The GNAC is so isolated out west there isn't a solution for them without 3 or 4 more teams jumping in on football and lowering all of their travel costs together.

Quick scan at the D2 map and there are just over 20 teams CLOSER to Edinboro for OOC matchups than two conference matchups... Silo scheduling is lazy, not cost savings.

Yes but in a 16 team conference there's only one week for OOC games. Not every conference does that where ever team has the same week open. I'm actually all for playing outside DII just to have an 11th game. I believe the nearby D3 school would probably be a better draw than a D2 team from five states away nobody's ever heard of. I'm absolutely against the 11-game conference schedule. At some point that's going to bite the MIAA in the butt.

[NewCatEyez]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

I get the point that you are trying to make, but if it were 500-600 miles, that may mean something. When the difference is 100 miles or so and the average only changes by 10-20 miles, it really makes no difference. I remember making the drive to San Angelo an Wichita Falls when I was in college for the playoffs. I even made it to Florence in consecutive weeks. I feel that it would be ideal if both the MIAA and GAC changed their conference structures around. That makes OOC games easier for everyone both inside and outside of the region a better chance at scheduling them.

I purposefully grabbed the ACU game to show that even long distance OOC games back then come in under today's travel. Changing the 2008/2009 (2433 miles) to 2007/2008 (1600) comes in combined miles about what 2018 (1550) travel alone comes in at...
It's ~1000 miles more travel for 2017/2018 than 2007/2008. Still think it's not a big deal?

[ShirtedBearcat]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

I'm not buying it. Any conference that has a rotating off week is not related to OOC issues. That happens with an odd number of schools in the conference which is when it would have trouble lining up with other available teams. Large or small, that is a conference fail if it happens.



No pulling punches. The MIAA started this crap for the conferences in the Midwest and are responsible for the mess they made. No excuses and it has been a very vocal part of objection by the fans of the teams since it was even rumored. Needs to be corrected.



Again, not buying it. Just in the MIAA for example Kearney/UCO/NSU were added stretching the boundaries north and south. Hays (although getting dated at this point) and Lindenwood were added stretching the footprint east and west. Any of those could have been used as OOC for schools for when they were closer but still allowing options for those schools now being forced to travel farther.

Here are some rough average distances travelled for NW over the years using city to city distance of regular season opponents:
2000/2001 - 2332 miles total, 12 games - avg 194 miles per non home game (Mankato and UNO on schedule as OOC)
2008/2009 - 2433 miles total, 12 games - avg 203 miles per non home game (ACU)
2017/2018 - 2626 miles total, 12 games - avg 218 miles per non home game(none)

The silo scheduling has resulted in roughly 15-25 miles more travel per game than was needed in the past. It has INCREASED the travel time, distance and costs. The only thing it has helped is making peoples jobs lazy in scheduling.

This includes going to Abilene, TX for an out of conference matchup in 2009 (~700 miles).
Mankato is actually even closer than any of Hays, Lindenwood, UCO or NSU as well for early 2000s vs today. (Various routes can interchange distances with Hays and Lindenwood as they are about a half hour time closer, although ~10 miles farther, from Maryville)

I get the point that you are trying to make, but if it were 500-600 miles, that may mean something. When the difference is 100 miles or so and the average only changes by 10-20 miles, it really makes no difference. I remember making the drive to San Angelo an Wichita Falls when I was in college for the playoffs. I even made it to Florence in consecutive weeks. I feel that it would be ideal if both the MIAA and GAC changed their conference structures around. That makes OOC games easier for everyone both inside and outside of the region a better chance at scheduling them.

[NewCatEyez]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

You might have some rosy lenses being a Northwest fan. In the PSAC athletic budgets are dropping precipitously because by and large athletics are funded through student fees. Enrollment is down 20% across the board since 2010 so that's a big chunk gone. Fortunately the PSAC only has one week for OOC games - and its always the same week (week one). IUP doesn't have the budget that Northwest has to play national OOC games. I've been told by coaches that sometimes its between playing an OOC/11th game or buying needed equipment.

That post was definitely not with NW colored glasses on and if it came across that way it wasn't intended. The MIAA has hosed basically the entirety of SR3 and SR4 from close OOC and thus forced more into silo scheduling. NW is included in that blame. Their public face was helping cut costs when about 20 minutes of research showed that expenses and travel times have increased with the silo scheduling in football. They are doing the exact opposite of what they say they are doing and simply making the scheduling a lazy non factor.

The RMAC, LSC, GAC, GLVC and NSIC are all being punished for the MIAA removing themselves from OOC potential matchups. I'm definitely not going to waste the time on running through all MIAA team schedules but Pitt, Emporia and Southern are the only three I can think that likely had travel costs lowered and that is likely more from teams like Truman leaving (as their travel would have exploded). While we all joke about Lindenwood tucking tail and running from the MIAA the travel comparisons for them aren't even close when looking at the GLVC vs MIAA. Hays, UCO and Kearney are all ~500 miles, Indianapolis is 300 miles.

Any conference in the northeast is within short drives of many other conferences and shouldn't be an issue at all. The GNAC is so isolated out west there isn't a solution for them without 3 or 4 more teams jumping in on football and lowering all of their travel costs together.

Quick scan at the D2 map and there are just over 20 teams CLOSER to Edinboro for OOC matchups than two conference matchups... Silo scheduling is lazy, not cost savings.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

I'm not buying it. Any conference that has a rotating off week is not related to OOC issues. That happens with an odd number of schools in the conference which is when it would have trouble lining up with other available teams. Large or small, that is a conference fail if it happens.



No pulling punches. The MIAA started this crap for the conferences in the Midwest and are responsible for the mess they made. No excuses and it has been a very vocal part of objection by the fans of the teams since it was even rumored. Needs to be corrected.



Again, not buying it. Just in the MIAA for example Kearney/UCO/NSU were added stretching the boundaries north and south. Hays (although getting dated at this point) and Lindenwood were added stretching the footprint east and west. Any of those could have been used as OOC for schools for when they were closer but still allowing options for those schools now being forced to travel farther.

Here are some rough average distances travelled for NW over the years using city to city distance of regular season opponents:
2000/2001 - 2332 miles total, 12 games - avg 194 miles per non home game (Mankato and UNO on schedule as OOC)
2008/2009 - 2433 miles total, 12 games - avg 203 miles per non home game (ACU)
2017/2018 - 2626 miles total, 12 games - avg 218 miles per non home game(none)

The silo scheduling has resulted in roughly 15-25 miles more travel per game than was needed in the past. It has INCREASED the travel time, distance and costs. The only thing it has helped is making peoples jobs lazy in scheduling.

This includes going to Abilene, TX for an out of conference matchup in 2009 (~700 miles).
Mankato is actually even closer than any of Hays, Lindenwood, UCO or NSU as well for early 2000s vs today. (Various routes can interchange distances with Hays and Lindenwood as they are about a half hour time closer, although ~10 miles farther, from Maryville)

You might have some rosy lenses being a Northwest fan. In the PSAC athletic budgets are dropping precipitously because by and large athletics are funded through student fees. Enrollment is down 20% across the board since 2010 so that's a big chunk gone. Fortunately the PSAC only has one week for OOC games - and its always the same week (week one). IUP doesn't have the budget that Northwest has to play national OOC games. I've been told by coaches that sometimes its between playing an OOC/11th game or buying needed equipment.

[boatcapt]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

They still publish the criteria used and the data for each criteria for every team in each region.

Last I checked, they publish the data for each week of Regional Rankings except the last week which would be the week the selections are made.

[Predatory Primates]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

Odd numbered teams wouldn't be an issue if the ncaa would let everyone start a week earlier and have a bye week later in the year.

[twolfbenchwarmer]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

Missing British Columbia! Our SR is so spread out compared to the other 3 so travel is a huge issue.

[Wildcat Khan]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

http://https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRZL7S2aK2VY-90GXCNp0afizV8gM4YW/view?usp=drivesdk

Missing British Columbia! Our SR is so spread out compared to the other 3 so travel is a huge issue.

[twolfbenchwarmer]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

http://https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TRZL7S2aK2VY-90GXCNp0afizV8gM4YW/view?usp=drivesdk

[HumRsky]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

A conference that is siloed basically takes the SOS variable out of the equation by insuring every one of its member schools have a .500.

[Ian Carlson]

Re: How can we encourage more OOC games

Ten is the perfect size. Allows you to play everyone in the conference every year and two non-conference games- one home, one away.

This. When the MIAA had 10 teams, it was awesome.