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FCS schools that should probably be in D2

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  • #76
    Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post

    Why wouldn't UCONN join the CAA like VILLANOVA. Really geographically tight competitive league. Everything else BIG EAST. Seems like a natural fit.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by canadarican View Post
      Said it before, but Presbyterian needs to drop back down
      Their fans on here were pretty cocky while they were reclassifying.

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      • #78
        Here in Texas I can think of the following ..... Houston Baptist, Incarnate Word (San Antonio), UT-Permian Basin (Odessa).

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        • #79
          Originally posted by TexasDigger View Post
          Here in Texas I can think of the following ..... Houston Baptist, Incarnate Word (San Antonio), UT-Permian Basin (Odessa).
          I wouldn't put UIW and HBU in the same category as each other. UIW is growing and I've heard rumors that they want to be in the FBS.

          (Also, UTPB is still in D2.)

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          • #80
            When PRATT & WHITNEY decides to conclude their naming rights, it will be even less profitable. The HUSKIES seem to average around 20,000 per game or 50% capacity which isn't terrible considering that STORRS is 24 miles away from EAST HARTFORD which has a crime rate higher than 91% of CT. Speaking of their egos UCONN football has won 1 game this year....24-21 over WAGNER....who also lost to ESU 24-14...so there's that.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Inkblot View Post

              I wouldn't put UIW and HBU in the same category as each other. UIW is growing and I've heard rumors that they want to be in the FBS.

              (Also, UTPB is still in D2.)
              My bad on UTPB ... You are 100% correct.

              I just don't see UIW or HBU (or for that matter, Abilene Christian) making it in FCS or FBS. But - they all three do have one thing in common ... $$$$.

              And now Tarleton is moving to D1 (FCS) ... they absolutely have the support both monetarily & a fast growing student body, plus they proved that they can compete by whipping SFA's butt (at SFA) earlier this season.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by TexasDigger View Post
                I just don't see UIW or HBU (or for that matter, Abilene Christian) making it in FCS or FBS.
                Well, last season UIW made the FCS playoffs and ACU made the basketball tournament. Which is ironic considering that in D2 UIW was a basketball power and ACU was a football power.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by TexasDigger View Post

                  And now Tarleton is moving to D1 (FCS) ... they absolutely have the support both monetarily & a fast growing student body, plus they proved that they can compete by whipping SFA's butt (at SFA) earlier this season.
                  There are a lot of D2 teams that could or would beat FCS teams, just like there are a lot of NAIA teams that would beat D2 teams, etc. Simply being able to beat a team in one sport doesn't justify an institutional shift.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Brandon View Post

                    There are a lot of D2 teams that could or would beat FCS teams, just like there are a lot of NAIA teams that would beat D2 teams, etc. Simply being able to beat a team in one sport doesn't justify an institutional shift.
                    Good point.

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                    • #85
                      I think a number of them should do so now. With the mid major (and D II) realignment, regionalization is a major factor (at least in the immediate future.) Those schools that survive need to really look at this when the dust settles, if realignment ever will. To decide which league and region provides the best fit.

                      When the tide goes out you can see who needed swim trunks.

                      Bring back the OIC.
                      Go Bronchos!

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                      • #86
                        One familiar institution that went one way and then the other. Good perspective for this discussion.

                        https://hbcugameday.com/2020/06/11/d...s-meac-exodus/
                        Last edited by CALUPA69; 06-13-2020, 01:23 PM.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Brandon View Post

                          Their fans on here were pretty cocky while they were reclassifying.
                          Presbyterian College alum here (and former ball player from the 80s), there were a number of "big picture" factors involved with PC's move to D1, not all tied to athletic success. I didn't agree with the move -- PC was a solid D2 program, but no national championships in any sport -- but I understand why the move to reclassify was made. Now as a non-scholarship football program (2020 first year), the savings that many foresaw could go up in smoke with the new travel budget. From the outside, I could see why many see them as a school that should drop down.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by 4_tattoos View Post

                            How much are schools making just to have their team eliminated in that Play-In round at Dayton?
                            To answer that, ZIP, ERO, NATTA, NOTHING.

                            The NCAA pays out NCAA tourney money in the way of units. A unit is earned for each game played by a team in the tourney with a few exceptions. The applicable exception for the play in game teams (meaning 16 seeds, not the at-large play ins) is that the first game by an automatic qualifier does not earn the conference a unit. The money comes when the team wins that play in game.

                            An NCAA tourney unit was worth roughly $275K per season to the conference for a period of 6 seasons. That means well over $1.5 million to the conference, which is generally split among the members. This is why getting an at-large bid for a mid-major, or winning your play in game can be so important. This is also why upsets by single bid conferences are so important.

                            What people also need to realize it the NCAA tourney isn't just about the units the conferences get. The NCAA tourney funds a lot of other money that goes to the schools. One of the biggest is the scholarship fund. Schools are given a certain amount per scholarship offered by the NCAA each year. There is a tiered system, so a school San Diego won't get the same amount that a school like Stanford would get, because Stanford offers a lot more scholarships. For lower cost schools, this money can offset a substantial portion of the scholarship costs for the school.

                            One other thing to consider in the D1 vs D2 debate is the marketing a school gets by being a D1 school. There isn't a great method to quantify the amount of money that comes from the recognition of being a D1 school. Some schools have been able to market it much better than others.

                            Finally, one thing athletic budgets often don't do a good job of quantifying is the amount of money the school gets as a result of the athletic programs existence. This is the debate that has been a hot topic in Idaho, as well as with many schools who have cut sports teams prior to the CoVID-19 outbreak, and was in the Malone cutting football discussion as well.

                            If a school has a sports team, and that team has 30 members, but the scholarship limit is only 12 athletes, that means 18 members of that team are somehow paying their own way to attend the school. If that sports team didn't exist, it is highly likely that 18 people, and the money they bring with them, would not be attending that school. Schools have to be careful to not cut to deep because it can impact the overall budget of the school. This is one of the reasons that many schools have been adding sports teams, in an effort to add student athletes (and thus students) to their school. The GLIAC has a couple examples of this. SVSU recently added men's and women's swimming (they had the pool for over 2 decades, a 50 meter pool, which is the only one in the GLIAC, until GVSU builds their new pool). NMU reinstates men's swimming and is adding several other sports. Davenport recently added women's swimming and adds men's next year. Doing this at the d1 level can be trickier because costs are increased, but it was in the proposal at Idaho as a way to help eliminate the budget deficit within the athletic budget (they were pushing for have the athletic budget recalculated as well to account for that money students pay their own way with as revenue).

                            Some schools are just in bad situations and should consider moving down. Chicago St in the WAC is an example. Not a good fit from a geographic standpoint, and substantial costs. Some of the HBCU schools due to the financial situations at the schools, although that might be changing given the current state of our society. There is a push to get more people to attend HBCU's which could help the finances at many of them.

                            One thing is certain, athletic budgets are not a simple thing to figure out.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by chapmaja View Post


                              *snip*
                              Re: Scholarship limits

                              That is often an overlooked point. In D3, there are no athletic scholarships (or roster limits set by the NCAA). That's why a lot of schools have added programs in the past few years. The students who are there are often paying a ridiculous amount of money. With no roster limits, schools like St. John's have 100+ football players on occasion - many of whom will never see playing time. The local media thinks it's cute, and the school counts it's money.

                              D2 St. Cloud State just cut football which eliminated 30+ students immediately as well as many unrealized students in the future. Given how they've been hemorrhaging enrollment over the past few years, and how many of those players were paying in some capacity to be there, it was a huge hit to the school.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                                In D3, there are no athletic scholarships (or roster limits set by the NCAA).
                                Wait. There's no roster limits for D3 programs? Or there's no roster limits at all in NCAA?

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