Informal and not so scientific poll

[West Florida]

Second, I agree about listening and having an open dialogue. I don't need the dialogue but I will leave you with this to think about (and hopefully listen to, even if internally)- YOUR experience in this country and YOUR interpretation of what the flag stands for is NOT the same experience and interpretation of others. When you finally listen to that, you might understand the perspectives of others.

Sometimes tone is lost in text or when reading something so let me assure you I'm speaking in a very peaceful way and I'm someone who believes fully in equality (which should be obvious to us as humans). I believe what I bolded from your message is completely true, but then shouldn't the individual get to decide for themself if they want to stand or take a knee in this example. Instead many are now acting like others are a racist if you don't take a knee. Drew Brees is a great example. The comments and backlash he faced are tragic in my opinion. He's been bullied into multiple statements now to protect his family. If you want to kneel, in my opinion, kneel. If you want to protest then protest. I'm saying this is America and that should be allowed. We all will disagree on some things and we will have different viewpoints. No problem. What I disagree with is being forced to kneel or forced to stand. Many players are going to be taking a knee, not because they want to, but because they have to or their teammates won't play with them or many will receive death threats or they will be viewed as racists. That is just as wrong as someone sending death threats for someone kneeling or calling someone a horrible name for kneeling. I defended Kaepernick when he was kneeling. I also defended Brees for wanting to stand. Does that make me racist or just a rational American? The ones screaming racist at that, in my opinion, are not helping their own cause. Listening is one thing, but just because you listen and then choose for yourself what is right, does not mean you didn't listen. It is very possible to listen to someone and then make your own decision or have a different view than the person you listened to.

[twolfbenchwarmer]

What hilarious is to go to protest march with a sign that reads "white lives ALSO matter" and see if you don't get sheet beat out of you.

[Wildcat Khan]

A lot of people forget this - but Kaepernick began his protest by quietly sitting during the National Anthem. It wasn't until Nate Boyer - a former Seahawks longsnapper and military veteran wrote him a letter asking if he'd kneel at attention. They talked, and Kaepernick agreed.

It's conveniently forgotten about by roughly 50% of the public (funny how that works, innit?). Even still, the NFL still keeps counting their money. It's almost like they don't care what Billy Bob Two-Teeth in Ratsnest, Arkansas has to say about them.

I heard a great interview with former Green Beret Nate Boyer. He said he fought to protect people's first amendment rights and Kapernick asked how to do it and not be disrespectful. I think where Kaepernick made a huge mistake, wearing the socks with police represented as pigs. If he had been able to control the narrative and keep it just about those who participate in police brutality and not made it look like protesting all police officers (many who are marching in the protests against police brutality) I think the narrative on him would be much different.

[boatcapt]

I heard a great interview with former Green Beret Nate Boyer. He said he fought to protect people's first amendment rights and Kapernick asked how to do it and not be disrespectful. I think where Kaepernick made a huge mistake, wearing the socks with police represented as pigs. If he had been able to control the narrative and keep it just about those who participate in police brutality and not made it look like protesting all police officers (many who are marching in the protests against police brutality) I think the narrative on him would be much different.

Kapernick chose his form of protest for a reason which he achieved. What he didn't count on was that many, MANY veterans and other Americans would see his chosen form of protest as an afront to the nation and the people who had given their life to give him the opportunity to protest. He also didn't factor in there being any negative career reprocutions for the method he chose to use to protest.

Not to disparege the service of Mr Boyer, but he either didn't tell Kapernick that using the flag and national anthem as a tool to protest would elicit a negative response from veterans,,,either that or Kapernick chose to ignore that bit of advice.

Kapernick also could have achieved the same goal if after he realized the passion that most veterans had with his chosen form of protest if he had held a news conference and said, I didn't understand the emotion that my chosen form of protest would illicit in the veteran community. It was not and is not my goal to insult them and I apoligize for any pain it may have caused. But that doesn't aleviate the passion that I feel about my cause. I look forward in the coming weeks and months to meeting with veterans to find common ground that highlights the plights of blacks and veterans that often confront the same situations.

[Bart]

I recall in 1968 someone was arrested for wearing a flag patch. Soon all the hippies and war protestors were wearing flags or making clothing out of flags. It wasn't long after that it became a fad and mainstream culture had small flags sewn on the back of their jackets. It could be that kneeling for the anthem will deteriorate into part of mainstream culture and lose the power of a protest. Sitting or laying down during the anthem would be more in line of a protest position.

Besides, kneeling seems more respectful than standing. Most people don't take a knee for a human, unless it's to propose marriage. Standing to shake hands with someone entering a room for an interview or a president coming to a podium is normal, but not taking a knee.

[SW_Mustang]

I heard a great interview with former Green Beret Nate Boyer. He said he fought to protect people's first amendment rights and Kapernick asked how to do it and not be disrespectful. I think where Kaepernick made a huge mistake, wearing the socks with police represented as pigs. If he had been able to control the narrative and keep it just about those who participate in police brutality and not made it look like protesting all police officers (many who are marching in the protests against police brutality) I think the narrative on him would be much different.

Yeah. It's conveniently forgotten about by his detractors. Kneeling is far less disrespectful than swaying and looking at the ground during the anthem. Oddly enough, those guys rarely get any heat. It makes me wonder if the protest isn't exactly what bothers people about him.

My one criticism of Kaepernick is that he appears to be selectively immature at times. The socks are one example, but there are a few, such as his pro day. It's self sabotaging behaviour and it really hurts his message.

[SW_Mustang]

Kapernick chose his form of protest for a reason which he achieved. What he didn't count on was that many, MANY veterans and other Americans would see his chosen form of protest as an afront to the nation and the people who had given their life to give him the opportunity to protest. He also didn't factor in there being any negative career reprocutions for the method he chose to use to protest.

Not to disparege the service of Mr Boyer, but he either didn't tell Kapernick that using the flag and national anthem as a tool to protest would elicit a negative response from veterans,,,either that or Kapernick chose to ignore that bit of advice.

Kapernick also could have achieved the same goal if after he realized the passion that most veterans had with his chosen form of protest if he had held a news conference and said, I didn't understand the emotion that my chosen form of protest would illicit in the veteran community. It was not and is not my goal to insult them and I apoligize for any pain it may have caused. But that doesn't aleviate the passion that I feel about my cause. I look forward in the coming weeks and months to meeting with veterans to find common ground that highlights the plights of blacks and veterans that often confront the same situations.

I have another totally honest question for you.

A lot of times when I watch sporting events, the athletes on the sidelines almost appear distracted. They sway back and forth, have their eyes closed or are looking down, slouched over and have both hands behind their back, and hop around on one or two legs. Why do we rarely hear about those individuals being disrespectful of the flag during the anthem? Is it because 7 is actually protesting? Wouldn't improper form exhibited by professionals be considered more egregious than kneeling at attention?

For the record, I don't claim to be perfect myself. It's also an honest question with all due respect. I'm just trying to gauge where the line is.

[boatcapt]

Yeah. It's conveniently forgotten about by his detractors. Kneeling is far less disrespectful than swaying and looking at the ground during the anthem. Oddly enough, those guys rarely get any heat. It makes me wonder if the protest isn't exactly what bothers people about him.

My one criticism of Kaepernick is that he appears to be selectively immature at times. The socks are one example, but there are a few, such as his pro day. It's self sabotaging behaviour and it really hurts his message.

As we've learned, offense is in the eye of the beholder. Just because a former Green Beret doesn't find it offensive or even suggested it, doesn't mean it's not offensive to millions and millions of other vets.

[SW_Mustang]

As we've learned, offense is in the eye of the beholder. Just because a former Green Beret doesn't find it offensive or even suggested it, doesn't mean it's not offensive to millions and millions of other vets.

I wasn't referencing vets in this post and I didn't mean to imply that I was. I was referencing the common person. That was my mistake.

I'm not a vet, so I'm not going to tell vets what they should think or feel. That's not my place.

[boatcapt]

I have another totally honest question for you.

A lot of times when I watch sporting events, the athletes on the sidelines almost appear distracted. They sway back and forth, have their eyes closed or are looking down, slouched over and have both hands behind their back, and hop around on one or two legs. Why do we rarely hear about those individuals being disrespectful of the flag during the anthem? Is it because 7 is actually protesting? Wouldn't improper form exhibited by professionals be considered more egregious than kneeling at attention?

For the record, I don't claim to be perfect myself. It's also an honest question with all due respect. I'm just trying to gauge where the line is.

Here we go.

[NWHoops]

Sometimes tone is lost in text or when reading something so let me assure you I'm speaking in a very peaceful way and I'm someone who believes fully in equality (which should be obvious to us as humans). I believe what I bolded from your message is completely true, but then shouldn't the individual get to decide for themself if they want to stand or take a knee in this example. Instead many are now acting like others are a racist if you don't take a knee. Drew Brees is a great example. The comments and backlash he faced are tragic in my opinion. He's been bullied into multiple statements now to protect his family. If you want to kneel, in my opinion, kneel. If you want to protest then protest. I'm saying this is America and that should be allowed. We all will disagree on some things and we will have different viewpoints. No problem. What I disagree with is being forced to kneel or forced to stand. Many players are going to be taking a knee, not because they want to, but because they have to or their teammates won't play with them or many will receive death threats or they will be viewed as racists. That is just as wrong as someone sending death threats for someone kneeling or calling someone a horrible name for kneeling. I defended Kaepernick when he was kneeling. I also defended Brees for wanting to stand. Does that make me racist or just a rational American? The ones screaming racist at that, in my opinion, are not helping their own cause. Listening is one thing, but just because you listen and then choose for yourself what is right, does not mean you didn't listen. It is very possible to listen to someone and then make your own decision or have a different view than the person you listened to.

I agree 100%. I understand the reason for the protests and why players or others kneel. I'll speak up in support of those who feel it necessary to do so. At the same time, I doubt I will every kneel. My experience and what the flag means to me is different than it is for those who choose to kneel, but I understand why they choose to do so. I'm not selfish enough to tell others that they should view the world through my lens and experiences.

Separate from this, I always struggle with the people who say that individuals can kneel but not at a football game, or during the anthem, or while working their job (all the reasons people gave for being against NFL players kneeling). These same people say it's ok to protest on one's own time, just not at the players' work which happens to be professional sports. What that means to me is that they are ok with people protesting as long as it doesn't affect their own lives or in their view. Hello?? That's the whole point of the protest- to bring it to light and gain attention.

[SW_Mustang]

Here we go.

It was a serious question. I'm just trying to understand. If you don't want to answer it, that's fine - but let's cut the dramatics.

I'm not trying to bait you into saying something and I'm not trying to start an argument. If you'd like to have a conversation in private, my inbox is always open.

[boatcapt]

It was a serious question. I'm just trying to understand. If you don't want to answer it, that's fine - but let's cut the dramatics.

I'm not trying to bait you into saying something and I'm not trying to start an argument. If you'd like to have a conversation in private, my inbox is always open.

The was your second thinly veiled accusation in two posts. I ignored the first when you stated:

It makes me wonder if the protest isn't exactly what bothers people about him.

[NWHoops]

I saw a protest sign that really hit home and especially so in the context of some of the comments in this thread. This isn't it exactly but it's pretty close:

Racism is so American that when you protest it, people think you're protesting against America.

[SW_Mustang]

The was your second thinly veiled accusation in two posts. I ignored the first when you stated:

It makes me wonder if the protest isn't exactly what bothers people about him.

I didn't accuse you or anyone else of anything and it's absolutely ridiculous to think I would do something like that.

I think it's best if we part ways here.