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  • #46
    Originally posted by NWHoops View Post
    I saw a protest sign that really hit home and especially so in the context of some of the comments in this thread. This isn't it exactly but it's pretty close:

    Racism is so American that when you protest it, people think you're protesting against America.
    I saw that too. It's become a slogan more or less for the movement. It's gotten me to think quite a bit.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

      As we've learned, offense is in the eye of the beholder. Just because a former Green Beret doesn't find it offensive or even suggested it, doesn't mean it's not offensive to millions and millions of other vets.
      And millions and millions had no opinion, and millions and millions were supportive of his actions so ..... No protest is comfortable, and there will always be those who have strong opinions pro or con.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by UWFMubbish View Post

        And millions and millions had no opinion, and millions and millions were supportive of his actions so ..... No protest is comfortable, and there will always be those who have strong opinions pro or con.
        I question your implication that millions and millions of veterans were supportive of his actions.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

          I question your implication that millions and millions of veterans were supportive of his actions.
          I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but last I checked it was the American flag, not the Military flag. I love our veterans and appreciate their service, but their opinion isn't the only one that matters.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Opinionated View Post
            After the protests and riots last week it is now perceived as acceptable to kneel during the National Anthem. If kneeling occurs not only at the professional level, but all collegiate levels, how long would you as a fan tolerate this practice? I for one think it is symbolism over substance. The kneeling was not the catalyst that drove the change. Changes are occurring so how long would you as a fan tolerate kneeling while the National Anthem is played?
            If I'm at home, I don't stand for the National Anthem, and I don't know ANYONE who does when they're at home. Those who choose to kneel know why they are kneeling, and they decide whether it is symbolic or substantial.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by GrifFan View Post

              I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but last I checked it was the American flag, not the Military flag. I love our veterans and appreciate their service, but their opinion isn't the only one that matters.
              Not going to flame you. Just as people have the right to disrespect the flag and anthem as a form of protest, me and many of my fellow vets have the right to say that we find it insulting and disrespectful.

              Seems like some people want to have it both ways...Protester uses a symbol that upsets a signifigant segment of the population, and then complain when that segment of the population calls him out on using that symbol.

              Comment


              • #52
                Protest - to be effective - has to be uncomfortable for some. If not it just gets ignored.

                The idea is to make people think about what they are doing/not doing and effect a change.

                So when Kaepernick had his discussion with the marine about the anthem and being respectful/disrespectful the two of them disagreed on how to respond, and the whole kneeling thing was a compromise based on the fact that when honoring a fallen soldier, say at a funeral, there will be a full dress soldier who gets on one knee when presenting the flag that was folded off the casket.

                But that action will still get people to notice, and some will find it distasteful or disrespectful.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                  Not going to flame you. Just as people have the right to disrespect the flag and anthem as a form of protest, me and many of my fellow vets have the right to say that we find it insulting and disrespectful.

                  Seems like some people want to have it both ways...Protester uses a symbol that upsets a signifigant segment of the population, and then complain when that segment of the population calls him out on using that symbol.
                  So are you and those other veterans upset when everyone uses American flag paper plates and napkins around the 4th of July or people wear clothing made to look like the American flag? Because those are expressly prohibited in the US Flag Code but there is never an uproar over it.

                  So it begs the question another poster asked- is it about the disrespect to the flag or the meaning behind the protest that have people upset?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                    I question your implication that millions and millions of veterans were supportive of his actions.
                    My mistake for omitting a key term -- I meant millions and millions of others (not vets)....

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by NWHoops View Post

                      So are you and those other veterans upset when everyone uses American flag paper plates and napkins around the 4th of July or people wear clothing made to look like the American flag? Because those are expressly prohibited in the US Flag Code but there is never an uproar over it.

                      So it begs the question another poster asked- is it about the disrespect to the flag or the meaning behind the protest that have people upset?
                      It is always about disrespect for the flag and anthem. That is the express reason that Kapernick chose to protest in this manner. He knew it would elicit a viseral reaction although I doubt he believed it would result in the end of his NFL playing career.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                        It is always about disrespect for the flag and anthem. That is the express reason that Kapernick chose to protest in this manner. He knew it would elicit a viseral reaction although I doubt he believed it would result in the end of his NFL playing career.
                        1. Then where is the outrage for those who disrespect the flag and anthem in other ways, such as the ways I mentioned?

                        2. I'd say it was successful on his part. Successful protests should result in visceral reactions.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by NWHoops View Post

                          Sorry but I've seen people of all races not stand for the flag or national anthem. The fact that you only want to call out black kids speaks to the bigger problems in our country.

                          Second, I agree about listening and having an open dialogue. I don't need the dialogue but I will leave you with this to think about (and hopefully listen to, even if internally)- YOUR experience in this country and YOUR interpretation of what the flag stands for is NOT the same experience and interpretation of others. When you finally listen to that, you might understand the perspectives of others.

                          Many have been having that dialogue for decades yet we have made little to no change in many of those areas. That's why you see what is happening across our country today.
                          I am saying that's where I 1st noticed ( the black kids at high school games {sitting during the Nat'l Anthem}) now yes its white kids maybe even so more than blacks.
                          Don't disrespect my flag. Taking a knee is disrespectful to me and I am offended, but hey who cares about the ol' vet, he doesn't go on a rampage and loot, rob, steal and beat up people. Hell, I'm stupid if a cop tells me to move along I do and don't start mf'n him. Oh and if your offended I'm sorry I have that right.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sec10-A-14 View Post

                            I am saying that's where I 1st noticed ( the black kids at high school games {sitting during the Nat'l Anthem}) now yes its white kids maybe even so more than blacks.
                            Don't disrespect my flag. Taking a knee is disrespectful to me and I am offended, but hey who cares about the ol' vet, he doesn't go on a rampage and loot, rob, steal and beat up people. Hell, I'm stupid if a cop tells me to move along I do and don't start mf'n him. Oh and if your offended I'm sorry I have that right.
                            So white guys shoot and kill multiple people in a movie theater in Colorado or a church in Charleston and the cops arrest them both with no shots fired but a black man sells cigarettes on the street in NY and is choked to death or a black kid is playing in a park in Cleveland and is shot to death by police and you think it's as simple as just do what the police tell you?

                            Thank you for being a great example of the systemic issues at play in our country.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I will move this to the off-topic section...........

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Sec10-A-14 View Post
                                As a veteran, I will never accept showing dis-respect to the Flag that represents the sacrifice of so many who gave all to protect those who hate. Don't get me started

                                Comment

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