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  • #16
    Originally posted by Eagle74 View Post
    I once overheard a coach telling a recruit that there's really not much difference these days in D3 and D2, but there's a huge difference in D2 and D1-AA / FCS and even bigger difference as compared to D1 / FBS. Really tired of some schools lack of investment (be it a financial hardship, or simply a lack of caring) watering down the higher division perception of Division 2 as compared to Division 3 and NAIA. Just like D1 is split into FCS and FBS, the same should hold true for Division 2 Football.

    When an NCAA school is claiming full D2 Football status while only offering a few scholarships as compared to others offering 25 to 36 in the same division, corrections and new standards need to be put into place. This move could also open the door for a potential D2-AA Football Championship for the schools unable to maintain higher D2 standards.
    What happens when there develops a stratification within that new system? Do we have to subdivide again? No matter what system you have there will always be top schools and bottom schools. Use any metric you want, competitiveness, scholarships, money, etc. There will always been the dominant programs and the bottom feeders. The present system Is by no means perfect, but further regulations like this would kill more programs than it would help.
    Last edited by purduefan11; 12-30-2020, 06:37 PM.

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    • #17
      i like the previous pick of OVU dropping down. It seems to make sense for them and they have a D3 like 15 minutes from their campus. The only issue I see I the fact that OVU does not seem like the type of school to spend hard earned money on a consultant to make the switch. I doubt their coffers are deep.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Eagle74 View Post
        I once overheard a coach telling a recruit that there's really not much difference these days in D3 and D2, but there's a huge difference in D2 and D1-AA / FCS and even bigger difference as compared to D1 / FBS. Really tired of some schools lack of investment (be it a financial hardship, or simply a lack of caring) watering down the higher division perception of Division 2 as compared to Division 3 and NAIA. Just like D1 is split into FCS and FBS, the same should hold true for Division 2 Football.

        When an NCAA school is claiming full D2 Football status while only offering a few scholarships as compared to others offering 25 to 36 in the same division, corrections and new standards need to be put into place. This move could also open the door for a potential D2-AA Football Championship for the schools unable to maintain higher D2 standards.
        What I really care about is effort. There are a lot of people that use being anything non-FBS as an excuse for laziness.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by purduefan11 View Post
          i like the previous pick of OVU dropping down. It seems to make sense for them and they have a D3 like 15 minutes from their campus. The only issue I see I the fact that OVU does not seem like the type of school to spend hard earned money on a consultant to make the switch. I doubt their coffers are deep.
          I believe Upper Iowa is also a possibility

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          • #20
            Originally posted by purduefan11 View Post

            What happens when there develops a stratification within that new system? Do we have to subdivide again? No matter what system you have there will always be top schools and bottom schools. Use any metric you want, competitiveness, scholarships, money, etc. There will always been the dominant programs and the bottom feeders. The present system Is by no means perfect, but further regulations like this would kill more programs than it would help.
            There's clearly a reason why D1 is split into two divisions. Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc (the haves) consistently play on a completely different level than D1AA Dixie State, Incardinate Word, Campbell, and Houston Baptist, etc (the have nots). There are also consistently the haves an have-nots in D2 as we know it today. Time for a change. D2 Football minimums standards = 22 -36, / D2-AA Football = 2 - 21 annual allocated scholarships.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eagle74 View Post

              There's clearly a reason why D1 is split into two divisions. Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc (the haves) consistently play on a completely different level than D1AA Dixie State, Incardinate Word, Campbell, and Houston Baptist, etc (the have nots). There are also consistently the haves an have-nots in D2 as we know it today. Time for a change. D2 Football minimums standards = 22 -36, / D2-AA Football = 2 - 21 annual allocated scholarships.
              Would you consider Carson-Newman a have or a have not?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Eagle74 View Post

                There's clearly a reason why D1 is split into two divisions. Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc (the haves) consistently play on a completely different level than D1AA Dixie State, Incardinate Word, Campbell, and Houston Baptist, etc (the have nots). There are also consistently the haves an have-nots in D2 as we know it today. Time for a change. D2 Football minimums standards = 22 -36, / D2-AA Football = 2 - 21 annual allocated scholarships.
                But with those two divisions there are still dominant teams and bottom feeders. With FBS, there is Clemson and Alabama at the top and unlv and Texas state at the bottom. Within fcs, there is ndsu and then there is butler here in Indiana. Cutting DII apart would only kill off a lot of programs, not strengthen D2. Not to mention, conferences would be a issue with top schools like NWMSU now playing in a whole different class than the bottom of the MIAA (Lincoln I presume) There will always be stratification so making more division seems pointless. Let schools figure out what they can afford and they can reap the benefits or consequences on their own.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by UFOILERFAN View Post

                  Would you consider Carson-Newman a have or a have not?
                  From what I've been told, CN utilizes over 22 scholarships annually. If I'm wrong, and if they fall below 22, they would be classified as a D2-AA program.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eagle74 View Post

                    There's clearly a reason why D1 is split into two divisions. Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Notre Dame, etc (the haves) consistently play on a completely different level than D1AA Dixie State, Incardinate Word, Campbell, and Houston Baptist, etc (the have nots). There are also consistently the haves an have-nots in D2 as we know it today. Time for a change. D2 Football minimums standards = 22 -36, / D2-AA Football = 2 - 21 annual allocated scholarships.
                    Shouldn't you be using NDSU as the FCS comparison to Clemson and Alabama? They are at about that level in FCS and not a 1st year D1 school like Dixie State.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Wildcat Khan View Post

                      Shouldn't you be using NDSU as the FCS comparison to Clemson and Alabama? They are at about that level in FCS and not a 1st year D1 school like Dixie State.
                      School Enrollment Budget
                      Alabama 29,488 $166,812,799
                      Clemson 18,945 $124,718,610
                      NDSU 10.198 $27,489,584

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                        School Enrollment Budget
                        Alabama 29,488 $166,812,799
                        Clemson 18,945 $124,718,610
                        NDSU 10.198 $27,489,584
                        Thanks Brandon! That really puts top FBS and top FCS into perspective.

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                        • #27
                          Last five D2 institutions to win a football championship.
                          -
                          School Enrollment Budget
                          West Florida 6,670 $10,911,531
                          Valdosta State 6,937 $9,236,914
                          Texas A&M-Commerce 6,070 $11,232,217
                          Northwest Missouri 4,899 $9,716,859
                          CSU-Pueblo 3.080 $8,321,766

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Eagle74 View Post
                            At this point, for the integrity of Division 2 Football, I advocate that any Division 2 conference which doesn't implement a mandated minimum on allocated scholarships, and have schools claiming full D2 status while allowing conference members to only invest in between 0 and 10 scholarships, should (starting in 2023) be reclassified as Division 2- AAA. I am also advocating that starting in 2023 / 2024 the NCAA mandate that no D2 school that doesn't prove that they are allocating (investing in) a minimum of 20 football scholarships in a given year be excluded from participating in the Division 2 Football playoffs.
                            What would you do with DII schools that don't offer football at all? OR those that offer football at the full DII scholarship level but offer other DII sports at less than the maximum?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                              School Enrollment Budget
                              Alabama 29,488 $166,812,799
                              Clemson 18,945 $124,718,610
                              NDSU 10.198 $27,489,584
                              This is an interesting article as far as revenue for the P5 programs.
                              Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Brandon View Post
                                Last five D2 institutions to win a football championship.
                                -
                                School Enrollment Budget
                                West Florida 6,670 $10,911,531
                                Valdosta State 6,937 $9,236,914
                                Texas A&M-Commerce 6,070 $11,232,217
                                Northwest Missouri 4,899 $9,716,859
                                CSU-Pueblo 3.080 $8,321,766
                                Where did this figure come from? As of Fall 2019, they had 12,588.

                                https://uwf.edu/about/at-a-glance/facts-and-figures/
                                Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

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