Someone going to D3?

[Brandon]

Where did this figure come from? As of Fall 2019, they had 12,588.

https://uwf.edu/about/at-a-glance/facts-and-figures/

People always have questions about the enrollment.

The data is from 2018. It is data that they have to give to the Department of Education.

The enrollment numbers are always lower than the casual observer thinks because they're full-time undergrad numbers. Most of the time, the marking departments of institutions cite every single enrolled person in their numbers, even if it's a person taking a single class. If you click on the link you provided, you'll see they list 9,571 as their undergraduate headcount, and likely includes those who are not enrolled full-time.

North Alabama's enrollment is 5,014 and their budget is $11,293,784.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

[wssuram]

People always have questions about the enrollment.

The data is from 2018. It is data that they have to give to the Department of Education.

The enrollment numbers are always lower than the casual observer thinks because they're full-time undergrad numbers. Most of the time, the marking departments of institutions cite every single enrolled person in their numbers, even if it's a person taking a single class. If you click on the link you provided, you'll see they list 9,571 as their undergraduate headcount, and likely includes those who are not enrolled full-time.

North Alabama's enrollment is 5,014 and their budget is $11,293,784.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Brandon, you are spot on. Department of Education enrollment numbers are based on full-time equivalent (FTE) undergraduatestudents. So 4 students each taking a single 3 hour course would be equivalent to 1 full-time student.

[ctrabs74]

A major reason why you have the "haves" and "have-nots" in D2 football, at least within the public/state schools, is restrictions - or lack thereof - on how scholarships are funded.

In Pennsylvania, the 12 PASSHE/PSAC schools which sponsor football are prohibited from using state funding to fund athletic scholarships; as best as I can recall, there are a few states (Georgia and Missouri come to mind) where there are no such restrictions, at least at the D2 level. I don't believe any of the public PSAC schools would be close to reaching the suggested "floor" of 25 scholarships (IUP, perhaps, might be the closest), while Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill can get close to "fully funded" through "discounts" that are not available at the PASSHE schools (I don't know what restrictions Shepherd has placed on them by the state of West Virginia, so I can't comment on their situation).

Those state-imposed restrictions and the public vs. private disparity also could have a factor in whether or not the idea would be remotely successful.

[Brandon]

A major reason why you have the "haves" and "have-nots" in D2 football, at least within the public/state schools, is restrictions - or lack thereof - on how scholarships are funded.

In Pennsylvania, the 12 PASSHE/PSAC schools which sponsor football are prohibited from using state funding to fund athletic scholarships; as best as I can recall, there are a few states (Georgia and Missouri come to mind) where there are no such restrictions, at least at the D2 level. I don't believe any of the public PSAC schools would be close to reaching the suggested "floor" of 25 scholarships (IUP, perhaps, might be the closest), while Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill can get close to "fully funded" through "discounts" that are not available at the PASSHE schools (I don't know what restrictions Shepherd has placed on them by the state of West Virginia, so I can't comment on their situation).

Those state-imposed restrictions and the public vs. private disparity also could have a factor in whether or not the idea would be remotely successful.

I believe there are many more states that allow the use of state funds for athletic scholarships than those that prohibit the activity. Pennsylvania is obviously one of those. The Hope Scholarship in Georgia has been especially beneficial to residents.

I believe Pennsylvania should reverse its policy. I think it's better for state funding to go to students. In addition, it's easier to fund raise for buildings and things of that nature than it is to fund raise for scholarships. It's much easier to to get someone to donate $1 million to put their name on a building.

[Brandon]

Brandon, you are spot on. Department of Education enrollment numbers are based on full-time equivalent (FTE) undergraduatestudents. So 4 students each taking a single 3 hour course would be equivalent to 1 full-time student.

Thank you for helping me understand it better.

[UNALions]

People always have questions about the enrollment.

The data is from 2018. It is data that they have to give to the Department of Education.

The enrollment numbers are always lower than the casual observer thinks because they're full-time undergrad numbers. Most of the time, the marking departments of institutions cite every single enrolled person in their numbers, even if it's a person taking a single class. If you click on the link you provided, you'll see they list 9,571 as their undergraduate headcount, and likely includes those who are not enrolled full-time.

North Alabama's enrollment is 5,014 and their budget is $11,293,784.

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

I'm well aware of that. You didn't stipulate full-time undergrads. I was a Financial Aid Director at two different schools and provided OPEd data each year. That strict computation doesn't accurately reflect the information to "the casual observer" in my opinion.

[Brandon]

I'm well aware of that. You didn't stipulate full-time undergrads. I was a Financial Aid Director at two different schools and provided OPEd data each year. That strict computation doesn't accurately reflect the information to "the casual observer" in my opinion.

It may be confusing, but it is more accurate and consistent.

[Eagle74]

Aside from potential split divisions for D2, I'm advocating a new NCAA Division 2 minimum of 12 scholarships (1/3 of the NCAA recommended 36) be mandated for all Division 2 football programs, even for new programs transitioning from D3 to D2.

I advocated for years that the SAC cap of 25 scholarships be removed, it was finally done a few years ago. The problem is, a minimum was never put into place, and now the SAC is courting D3 schools to join the conference to boost the number of conference schools with football programs. Without minimums in place, we see D3 schools being able to join the 'higher division' conference with the investment of only a couple of scholarships, there are also no minimum standards for facilities. In my opinion, if this is the case, and since things are presently being watered down, go ahead and let a bunch of D3 schools join the conference while the door's open. Maybe eventually, the commissioner will see that more doesn't equal better and a change is in order.

[wssuram]

Aside from potential split divisions for D2, I'm advocating a new NCAA Division 2 minimum of 12 scholarships (1/3 of the NCAA recommended 36) be mandated for all Division 2 football programs, even for new programs transitioning from D3 to D2.

I advocated for years that the SAC cap of 25 scholarships be removed, it was finally done a few years ago. The problem is, a minimum was never put into place, and now the SAC is courting D3 schools to join the conference to boost the number of conference schools with football programs. Without minimums in place, we see D3 schools being able to join the 'higher division' conference with the investment of only a couple of scholarships, there are also no minimum standards for facilities. In my opinion, if this is the case, and since things are presently being watered down, go ahead and let a bunch of D3 schools join the conference while the door's open. Maybe eventually, the commissioner will see that more doesn't equal better and a change is in order.

I like the idea of a minimum. I thibk it supports competitive balance. I also think it is a student-athlete centered approach since it would reduce the financial burden on more SA's.

[laker]

Last five D2 institutions to win a football championship.
-

School	Enrollment	Budget
West Florida	6,670	$10,911,531
Valdosta State	6,937	$9,236,914
Texas A&M-Commerce	6,070	$11,232,217
Northwest Missouri	4,899	$9,716,859
CSU-Pueblo	3.080	$8,321,766

Is this for athletic budget?

[Brandon]

Is this for athletic budget?

yes

[boatcapt]

It may be confusing, but it is more accurate and consistent.

WAY back in my college days, I enrolled one semester in 4 courses (12 semester hours) offered in "mini-semester" format. I was financially surprised to find out that while I was carrying a full time load on a semester basis, because I was "only" enrolled in 6 SH at a time, I was considered a part-time student and as such was ineligible for a veterans provided monthly stippen that me and my landlord had REALLY become dependent on!!! But after the fact, the biggest down side was that I also was ineligible for free student tickets to athletic events. Maryland was pretty good that year!!