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  • #31
    Lenoir Rhyne beat Limestone which beat Newberry which beat Wingate and Lenoir Rhyne and won SAC. Limestone an Wingate are in and Newberry is out? Somebody must have drunk a lot of cool aid.

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    • #32
      Just to clear the air here a bit..

      Conference champs don't matter in this playoff selection..per the selection criteria.

      Wingate has the best resume per the criteria..and they were essentially the 5 seed. Limestone the 6th or 7th..as they have an all important head to head win over Newberry. That said, we felt Newberry should've beaten out FSU..but those two are very close in the criteria.

      There was mention on West GA....they were a few teams back per the criteria and weren't really in the conversation yesterday..to be honest. (low SOS from their first 2 games)

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Matt Witwicki View Post

        There was mention on West GA....they were a few teams back per the criteria and weren't really in the conversation yesterday..to be honest. (low SOS from their first 2 games)
        Had to be more than just their first two games. Yeah Morehouse is a dump, but C-N finished 6-5. Didn't help the Wolves had to play a bad North Greenville team twice and lost to Mississippi College.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by canadarican View Post

          Limestone beat them H2H tho. That had to be a factor IMO
          If H2H has to be a factor, then Newberry should be in over Wingate. People keep saying conference championships don't matter, but that is exactly why they put Fayetteville State in, they won the CIAA. So, which is it? Does it matter or not? Fayetteville State lost to Wingate bad, who lost to Newberry by more than a TD. At this point the committee just does what they want and answers to nobody.

          UGA better hope they don't lose a game before the SEC title game, the committee may decide a 1-loss SEC champion doesn't need to be in the playoff while sending a team they beat on the field.

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          • #35
            Newberry got robbed. Period. Selection committee has very little credibility moving forward.

            (And I'm saying this as someone who isn't even a Newberry fan.)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mule View Post
              Newberry got robbed. Period. Selection committee has very little credibility moving forward.

              (And I'm saying this as someone who isn't even a Newberry fan.)
              Literally every single year we see the same posts about whatever team getting robbed. Then someone will chime in that we should expand the field, then the next person will say that the teams on the new bubble will then have a valid complaint about getting robbed. Finally I will sarcastically state that we should just give everyone a trophy.

              Rinse & repeat next year.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by bigdog2003 View Post

                If H2H has to be a factor, then Newberry should be in over Wingate. People keep saying conference championships don't matter, but that is exactly why they put Fayetteville State in, they won the CIAA. So, which is it? Does it matter or not? Fayetteville State lost to Wingate bad, who lost to Newberry by more than a TD. At this point the committee just does what they want and answers to nobody.

                UGA better hope they don't lose a game before the SEC title game, the committee may decide a 1-loss SEC champion doesn't need to be in the playoff while sending a team they beat on the field.
                H2H is a factor only if the teams are next to each other in the rankings. They'll flip in that case.

                The thing about UGA is that there are no metrics used in the CFP rankings. It is entirely committee-based. There are no numbers they go by. They go by their opinions and nothing more. They may use some kind of metrics as a guide, but they don't determine the order or anything. In D2, the numbers do the heavy lifting, and the committee does very little besides shuffle around teams 5-7 to get the best match-ups for travel. So you can keep arguing all you want, but the fact of the matter is what Newberry's metrics for playoff consideration were not as good as other teams. That's it.
                2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                  H2H is a factor only if the teams are next to each other in the rankings. They'll flip in that case.

                  The thing about UGA is that there are no metrics used in the CFP rankings. It is entirely committee-based. There are no numbers they go by. They go by their opinions and nothing more. They may use some kind of metrics as a guide, but they don't determine the order or anything. In D2, the numbers do the heavy lifting, and the committee does very little besides shuffle around teams 5-7 to get the best match-ups for travel. So you can keep arguing all you want, but the fact of the matter is what Newberry's metrics for playoff consideration were not as good as other teams. That's it.
                  Games are played on the field, not with some computer or using some made up numbers. Newberry and Wingate played each other on the field, and Newberry won. I don't care what some numbers say, we know who the better team is. IS the playoffs about the better teams playing, or about some numbers that we never officially see?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by gsutiger2002 View Post
                    I tend to agree with you after looking at a few things: Newberry has a better strength of schedule, both have identical records and both won their conference championships. They both have a common opponent in Wingate, which Newberry beat. The only thing, and I may be reaching here, is that Newberry SOS may have taken a huge hit with the Allen game. Allen is 6th from the bottom in SOS. Other than that I don't see it either.
                    Newberry's SOS is not better than Fayetteville State's.

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                    • #40
                      How many of the people Bing and moaning about NW getting in are the same people that say the best 28 teams in the country should be selected? I have yet to see a single person put money where their mouth is and say Truman (or anyone else under consideration) is a better team than NW. None of the dudes on the D2 show would say it either and I guarantee every single one of those dudes would like for the best 28 teams regardless of regional affiliation to be selected. This is why I quit working with the numbers many moons ago once NW's SR had multiple conferences with silo scheduling. The committee at the time stated the SR had to be looked at subjectively. The numbers do not matter in SR3. You can eyeball the order easier and quicker than getting a calculator out. How many years are we on now with some still thinking the numbers matter in SR3? Define insanity.
                      Last edited by Taxman; 11-14-2022, 04:20 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by bigdog2003 View Post

                        Games are played on the field, not with some computer or using some made up numbers. Newberry and Wingate played each other on the field, and Newberry won. I don't care what some numbers say, we know who the better team is. IS the playoffs about the better teams playing, or about some numbers that we never officially see?
                        Do you believe Marshall is a better football team than Notre Dame?

                        It doesn't really matter what YOU care about. What matters is what the NCAA has determined as the criteria for selecting playoff teams. If you want that to change, then go voice your displeasure at the NCAA. But within the guidelines that they currently operate by, which has been agreed upon by D-II institutions, they use the numbers.

                        I mean it seems pretty easy to figure out. Newberry had an SOS of .513 and was 3-2 against over .500 teams. Wingate had an SOS of .531 and was 4-1 against over .500 teams. So Wingate is in, and Newberry is not. If you want to argue about Newberry and Fayetteville State, then maybe there's more of an argument there. But Fayetteville's two losses were both to playoff teams, so. Not sure what to tell you.
                        Last edited by KleShreen; 11-14-2022, 02:20 PM.
                        2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                          H2H is a factor only if the teams are next to each other in the rankings. They'll flip in that case.
                          .
                          That was the case in the past. Reading this year's manual, it makes no qualification. From the manual:

                          Required Selection Criteria. Following confirmation of the availability of student-athletes for NCAA Championships and the application for any nullification, the following selection criteria shall be applied in no particular order:
                          ● In-region winning percentage;
                          ● Division II winning percentage;
                          ● Division II strength of schedule (opponents’ average winning percentage and opponents’ opponents’ average winning percentage);
                          Division II head-to-head competition; and
                          ● Results versus Division II common opponents.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Its easy to correct. Go to eight teams in each regional and no bye for first seed. This year they really messed up the SR2 seeds and no matter how you spin it Newberry got shafted by putting a nine seed in at six. CIAA historically is a weaker conference and that definitely was not considered this year. I personally think Fayetteville would have four losses minimal in the SAC and or GSC. If you had Massey run the head to head Fayetteville would have six losses in GSC and five in the SAC.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                              Do you believe Marshall is a better football team than Notre Dame?

                              It doesn't really matter what YOU care about. What matters is what the NCAA has determined as the criteria for selecting playoff teams. If you want that to change, then go voice your displeasure at the NCAA. But within the guidelines that they currently operate by, which has been agreed upon by D-II institutions, they use the numbers.

                              I mean it seems pretty easy to figure out. Newberry had an SOS of .513 and was 3-2 against over .500 teams. Wingate had an SOS of .531 and was 4-1 against over .500 teams. So Wingate is in, and Newberry is not. If you want to argue about Newberry and Fayetteville State, then maybe there's more of an argument there. But Fayetteville's two losses were both to playoff teams, so. Not sure what to tell you.
                              So SOS for games that could have been set up YEARS ago is more important that beating teams on the field. That makes a lot of sense. Why are there even conferences if conference championships don't matter, just let everybody schedule 11 games against whoever they want.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Redwing View Post

                                That was the case in the past. Reading this year's manual, it makes no qualification. From the manual:

                                Required Selection Criteria. Following confirmation of the availability of student-athletes for NCAA Championships and the application for any nullification, the following selection criteria shall be applied in no particular order:
                                ● In-region winning percentage;
                                ● Division II winning percentage;
                                ● Division II strength of schedule (opponents’ average winning percentage and opponents’ opponents’ average winning percentage);
                                Division II head-to-head competition; and
                                ● Results versus Division II common opponents.
                                There does not need to be that qualification - by its nature head-to-head comparisons are pairwise between two teams. If the teams are not close together in consideration by the other criteria, what exactly does it mean to even consider H2H? Move one of the pair up a bit and the other down due to the H2H?

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