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  • Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post
    I agree with kle that the barrier to getting the best teams in is the fact that there are almost no d2 experts.
    Apparently there are several on here.

    :-)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post

      I think the poor quality of the product has helped lead to that level of 0 Fs given by national media.
      No...people just weren't watching these games all along.

      The National Media has never given an F about D2 foosball. Ever.

      Hell, the local media in Pennsylvania barely mentions any schools below D1. We are lucky the stations in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh mention the scores.

      It's small college foosball. Sorry.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post

        That's a good point. Conferences are always in a state of flux.

        Like I said earlier. SR1 would get much more competitive internally if just one school would get to the financial level of commitment, get truly competitive, and stay there for a while. Their biggest burden right now is the Peter Principle. Teams up there only have to be X good in order to make the semifinals. There is no real motivation to get from x to X+Y+Z, where they would need to be to win a NC. I think SR4, in it's current state, could head down that same rabbit hole.
        IUP already did this and the reaction was to tear them down and pull them back into the fold.

        However, the landscape in 2023 is different than the early 90's. Shepherd is trying to get better. IUP just needs a Sugar Daddy to close the final gap to 36. Slimey Pebble has more money now than they did years ago. West Chester could dominate if they wanted to being as huge as they are and located in a densely populated and highly affluent suburban region. Ashland, Ohio Dominican and Fake Notre Dame have made their noise and don't seem to looking to stagnate. I mean...how much do you all really know what is going on with Region 1 teams trying to get better?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

          There are only 10 current schools in D2 that have won the title. Stop it with the regions. There are over 160 schools playing foosball and only about 5% of those schools have a real shot every year.

          One of those 10 currents is Northern Meatchicken who won it way back in 1975. They are no threat to win a National Title anytime soon. So toss them out.

          That leaves 2 MIAA teams, 2 GLIAC (although is now 17 years since GV has won anything), 3 GSC (and West Florida will move up as soon as they stop playing in a baseball stadium), 1 NSIC and 1 RMAC team that have won a title..

          RamTough had is correct. There are three conferences with a few top teams who dominate. A few second tier that goes on a run and then there is everyone else.

          That is the reality.

          The fix for now is to put all three top conferences in their own region. The whining is because the two headed monster of the GLIAC is stuck in a region with the two headed monster of the MIAA.

          You only hate on Region 1 because the GLIAC got moved and you hold a silly grudge. The reality is the Northeast 10 didn't participate in the playoffs prior to 2003. The first year they did the NCAA gave Bentley the higher seed in the Region ahead of GV who was in the middle of their dominating run. Do you even remember that..how GV had to travel to Bentley? They then redid the regions the following year when the playoff field got expanded and you got moved along with other conferences that got moved. It wasn't the Pee Sack demanding it to be removed. GV then won it's semi-final game over Kingsville by 28. So blowouts in Semi Finals have happened very often. So get over it.

          The even bigger problem is how the teams are calculated each year. IUP has been ****ed over several times based on the spread sheet numbers.

          2003 - IUP belonged in over Bentley. But Saggy and GV took two spots and Edinboro took another as they were the only team to beat IUP...and that left the NCAA giving a spot to the NE 10 when they had no history.

          2006 - The Northeast 10 once again benefitted by the spread sheets as it got THREE teams in the playoffs. Two of them were 7-3 teams in Merrimack and Southern Connecticut who had taken huge beatings in their losses and they got in over 8-2 IUP and Mon Valley U (California). IUP lost both games by less than 10 points total. Merrimack was the 3 seed, and the other two got the 4/5 seed and they faced off. West Chester...the 6th seed took out 3 seed Bryant and then Merrimack who won the first round over So. Conn got demolished by top seed Shepherd. But the spread sheets said the NE10 teams had a harder scheduled (by playing a NE 10 schedule and the Pee Sack teams got screwed over by the unbalanced Pee Sack cross over mandates)

          2015 - IUP should have been the 4 seed over Charleston. IUP went down there and ran them off their field. Then the next week only lost by 4 to eventual National runner up Shepherd. But the spread sheets said Charleston was better!

          2016 - Same thing happened again. IUP should have been the four seed over Fairmont. IUP rolled them even worse on their field. But the spread sheets said Fairmont was better!

          So...you think only the top teams gets screwed over by this setup when they have never been fair or tell the whole story.

          Again, the temporary fix is to divorce the GLIAC and MIAA from the same region.

          I do like they reseed the final four teams now. I never liked how they predetermined what regions would face each other long before the brackets were filled out.

          Nobody is ever going to be happy.

          I can't get over how in the same post, you tried to lambast GV for not "winning anything" in 17 years, but then you go in to IUP's "history" despite them having never won at any point lol.
          2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

          Comment


          • D2 Football has never sold on a National level and likely no matter will. This isn't an argument against playoff reform, but some of you are acting like we're suddenly going to get more eyeballs on the product if a game or two is closer. The fact is that D2 football just doesn't sell outside of its individual markets. CBS Sports tried a D2 game of the week at one point, and that didn't last long because no one watched.

            We live in a bit of a vacuum here. We all love D2 football or at least our individual teams and conferences. I guarantee that the fans here know more about D2 football than any media person not named Brandon, Chuck, Witt, Ferg, etc. And thank God we have those guys. If we didn't have those guys, we wouldn't have this site and would likely be much less informed than we are now.

            I sing the praises of small college football every year on Facebook, but I don't think that I have convinced one person to go watch a game anywhere. I live on the WV/KY border. Almost everyone would rather load up and go watch WVU get beaten by Baylor or UK get rolled by Georgia. Maybe a few may go watch Marshall. But they just aren't interested in anything below that.

            Want to know what has gotten Shepherd more media coverage than anything that I can remember? Tyson Bagent in the Senior Bowl this year. Joey Fisher in the NFLPA Bowl and being moved up to the Senior Bowl. And then to a lesser extent Ronnie Brown in the NFLPA Bowl. And that coverage and interest will be fleeting.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post

              That's a good point. Conferences are always in a state of flux.

              Like I said earlier. SR1 would get much more competitive internally if just one school would get to the financial level of commitment, get truly competitive, and stay there for a while. Their biggest burden right now is the Peter Principle. Teams up there only have to be X good in order to make the semifinals. There is no real motivation to get from x to X+Y+Z, where they would need to be to win a NC. I think SR4, in it's current state, could head down that same rabbit hole.
              I think that there are programs trying to get there, but they just aren't there. And there is no guarantee that they ever will get there.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                I can't get over how in the same post, you tried to lambast GV for not "winning anything" in 17 years, but then you go in to IUP's "history" despite them having never won at any point lol.
                That's what you took from that?

                You are like talking to a wall. I tried to be nice but you just want to be a dick. So why bother discussing anything with you when all you want to do is insult.

                Now...I hope they don't change a damn thing.

                I hope the GLIAC and MIAA stay stuck in the same region. You all deserve each other.

                I will enjoy watching everyone get mad at Region 1. We will drink your tears.

                Go Region 1. Let's keep stealing playoff spots!!!
                Last edited by IUPNation; 02-26-2023, 09:42 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

                  That's what you took from that?

                  You are like talking to a wall. I tried to be nice but you just want to be a dick.

                  Now...I hope they don't change a damn thing.

                  I hope the GLIAC and MIAA stay stuck in the same region. You all deserve each other.

                  I will enjoy watching everyone get mad at Region 1. We will drink your tears.

                  Go Region 1. Let's keep stealing playoff spots!!!
                  The irony is so thick lol
                  2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                    The irony is so thick lol
                    No...I know reality when I see it.

                    You want it rigged so it's always to your advantage.

                    People just don't like how I tell it like it is...

                    But you keep on whining how you want a perfectly engineered playoffs so that the Semi Finals are a GLIAC/MIAA/GSC circle jerk that will somehow be the games of the week and College Game Day will be broadcasting from one of them and the world will be all perfect but like fetch...that 's not going to happen.

                    Wake up...D2 is small college foosball. Grand Valley has chosen to stay in a small college division when it's not a small college. It's peers are MAC schools and they are choosing not to fade away into the sad MAC world. That's their right. I don't blame them.

                    The MIAA guy said expand to 32 and give every conference an auto bid. Okay..I can go with that but I think there should be less teams. I feel once it went past 16 the field was just watered down. FBS needs to never go past 8 teams. I would hen assume all conference winners would stay in Region and at large teams would get put across all regions.

                    If you add more teams from the Midwest into a Northeast bracket, those teams would have to be the bottom seeds. It would not be fair to put a Midwest team at the top of a Northeast bracket. Nope. Nope. Nope. The top 6 seeds in each region must be from that region and the regional final must be played on the home field of the top remaining seed of the region. We cannot have a team in Michigan or Missouri or Kansas having the Northeast regional final on their home field. Absolutely not.
                    Last edited by IUPNation; 02-26-2023, 10:50 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Ram Tough View Post
                      Also, how do we even know for sure who the best four teams are before the playoffs begin? Sure, you can likely pick out a favorite or two, but it can get cloudy after that..
                      Matt's method seeded 1-8. That aligns with your thinking and goes a long way toward making sure the four best aren't eliminated by each other early in the playoffs.

                      It was constructed using information only available after the regular season. It was a snapshot of how things would have looked at the time.

                      1. GVSU
                      2. Ferris State
                      3. Angelo State
                      4. Pittsburg State
                      5. West Florida
                      6. Ouachita Baptist
                      7. Delta State
                      8. Colorado Mines

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post


                        The even bigger problem is how the teams are calculated each year. IUP has been ****ed over several times based on the spread sheet numbers.

                        2003 - IUP belonged in over Bentley. But Saggy and GV took two spots and Edinboro took another as they were the only team to beat IUP...and that left the NCAA giving a spot to the NE 10 when they had no history.
                        I think 2004 was the first year that any sort of data was used, but I could be remembering incorrectly.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post
                          I agree with kle that the barrier to getting the best teams in is the fact that there are almost no d2 experts. With the death of localized media, that problem is getting worse each year.

                          That is the problem that needs to be addressed by the powers that be before we can even talk about tweaking things to get a truly competitive setup.
                          A fix of the problem of the extinction of local media has to be achieved before the playoffs can be restructured?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post

                            Like I said earlier. SR1 would get much more competitive internally if just one school would get to the financial level of commitment, get truly competitive, and stay there for a while. Their biggest burden right now is the Peter Principle. Teams up there only have to be X good in order to make the semifinals. There is no real motivation to get from x to X+Y+Z, where they would need to be to win a NC. I think SR4, in it's current state, could head down that same rabbit hole.
                            If I had a gazillion dollars, I'd experiment.

                            I'd fully fund one SR1 program's scholarships. I'd built a new stadium. I'd build an indoor. I'd build new weights and support facilties.

                            The reason that SR1 plays out like it does (and part of the issue with forced improvement by anyone) is that there isn't a single school that stands out. If a 1-10 were assigned based upon finances, facilities, salaries, support, etc. the totals in SR1 (and specifically the PSAC) come to the same sum.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ram Tough View Post
                              CBS Sports tried a D2 game of the week at one point, and that didn't last long because no one watched.

                              We live in a bit of a vacuum here. We all love D2 football or at least our individual teams and conferences. I guarantee that the fans here know more about D2 football than any media person not named Brandon, Chuck, Witt, Ferg, etc. And thank God we have those guys. If we didn't have those guys, we wouldn't have this site and would likely be much less informed than we are now.

                              I sing the praises of small college football every year on Facebook, but I don't think that I have convinced one person to go watch a game anywhere. I live on the WV/KY border. Almost everyone would rather load up and go watch WVU get beaten I coverage than anything that I can remember? Tyson Bagent in the Senior Bowl this year. Joey Fisher in the NFLPA Bowl and being moved up to the Senior Bowl. And then to a lesser extent Ronnie Brown in the NFLPA Bowl. And that coverage and interest will be fleeting.
                              I think it's likely that the game broadcasts were discontinued not because no one watched, but because Division II decided not stop paying for them.

                              Part of the problem with doing something like the game of the week is that all the conferences were represented. Because they are part of Division II and contribute financially they felt justified in demanding their inclusion. This led to very few games between the top programs. I specifically recall Central Washington playing Minnesota Duluth, but I cannot remember the matchups outside that one.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

                                If you add more teams from the Midwest into a Northeast bracket, those teams would have to be the bottom seeds. It would not be fair to put a Midwest team at the top of a Northeast bracket. Nope. Nope. Nope. The top 6 seeds in each region must be from that region and the regional final must be played on the home field of the top remaining seed of the region. .
                                Why is that not fair, other than it's the way you want it to be?

                                The system doesn't have to be married to NE quadrant. Maybe it could be split in two. Maybe there could be no split at all.

                                Comment

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