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How do you know if a D-II school made the right decision to go D-I?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

    Then again, I'm all about winning. I think it does a disservice to your potential student-athletes if you go recruit kids and have to essentially tell them right from the jump "hey, you won't be coming here to win national titles." If that's the case, eliminate athletics from the university model.
    I'm not disagreeing with your take - however the title of being a "D1 athlete" is very, very alluring to a lot of young athletes.

    Heck, I think a lot of schools are pretty much using that as their recruiting strategy to capitalize on it.

    That being said, most NFL GMs would probably rather have a 4-year D2 starter than a 4-year FBS benchwarmer. It's all about what the athlete values most.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by zimmy21 View Post

      I would argue that enrollment can be heavily attributed to athletics. Take out the athletics program and I would venture any school that had previously fielded programs would see a sharp decline in enrollment.
      I can agree with this on the technicality that student-athletes are also students counted in enrollment numbers, therefore any school that gets rid of sports would also see an enrollment drop by default.

      But is anyone choosing to attend Lindenwood because they are D1 on the non-athlete side of things? If so, why...?

      It happens with your name brand schools obviously, but I'd be actually shocked if it happened to any degree of impact outside of that.

      Comment


      • #18
        It's not just "choosing school X because it's D1." But more discovering school X because it's D1 and finding more out about the school and ultimately deciding to go there.

        I think the ultimate example is Florida Gulf Coast from almost a decade ago.

        https://www.espn.com/blog/collegebas...at-youd-expect

        Last March, Florida Gulf Coast made it bigger than most. Thanks not only to two first-weekend upsets (Georgetown and San Diego State) but to the hows of those wins (lots of running and dunking and jumping and cheering), the Eagles were a national sensation, dubbed “Dunk City,” that captured the heart of even the most casual of fans. Florida weather reporters changed their readouts. Shots of FGCU’s ocean-front campus were nearly as plentiful as those of coach Andy Enfield’s wife. It was a thing.

        And, surprise, surprise, enrollment applications to Florida Gulf Coast University experienced what the Ft. Myers News-Press called an “unprecedented spike”:
        FGCU has seen an unprecedented surge in freshmen applications, a 35.4 percent year-over-year spike that President Wilson Bradshaw would like to think is a result of surging academic prestige. He knows that’s not the sole reason, though.
        “Our visibility in basketball certainly didn’t hurt,” Bradshaw said. “We have to acknowledge that.”

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Runnin' Cat View Post

          There aren't many FBS football national championship schools that have won in other sports, outside of golf, gymnastics, softball, etc.
          I mean.....those are the other sports. All the blueblood schools are at the top of almost every sport, which is why it is dumb to move up to D1 and try and compete for titles. The top baseball schools are in the SEC, the top softball schools are in the SEC and Big 12, the top volleyball schools are in the SEC/Big 12/Pac 10, the top gymnastics schools are in the SEC/Pac 10/Big 10, the top track schools are in the SEC/Pac 10, the top golf schools are in the Pac 10/SEC, the top tennis schools are in the SEC/Pac 10, the top basketball schools are in the SEC/ACC/Pac 10, etc. The only sports that really give any non-P5 schools a chance are the ancillary sports like cross country, water polo, etc.

          So if your school's entire reason for going D1 is to compete against the best and win championships, they're liars and being disingenuous. If your school comes out and says their entire reason for going D1 is to just try and boost enrollment by saying you get to compete against the actual good programs, then that's fine, but I want them to be honest about it. That's why I never want GV to move D1. I do not want to have their ceiling go from competing for a national title in virtually every sport in D2 to being competing for a conference title in some conference the general population has never heard of, and MAYBE, if you're super lucky, pulling a 15-over-2 upset in March Madness once every 30 years.
          2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
            It's not just "choosing school X because it's D1." But more discovering school X because it's D1 and finding more out about the school and ultimately deciding to go there.

            I think the ultimate example is Florida Gulf Coast from almost a decade ago.

            https://www.espn.com/blog/collegebas...at-youd-expect

            Last March, Florida Gulf Coast made it bigger than most. Thanks not only to two first-weekend upsets (Georgetown and San Diego State) but to the hows of those wins (lots of running and dunking and jumping and cheering), the Eagles were a national sensation, dubbed “Dunk City,” that captured the heart of even the most casual of fans. Florida weather reporters changed their readouts. Shots of FGCU’s ocean-front campus were nearly as plentiful as those of coach Andy Enfield’s wife. It was a thing.

            And, surprise, surprise, enrollment applications to Florida Gulf Coast University experienced what the Ft. Myers News-Press called an “unprecedented spike”:
            FGCU has seen an unprecedented surge in freshmen applications, a 35.4 percent year-over-year spike that President Wilson Bradshaw would like to think is a result of surging academic prestige. He knows that’s not the sole reason, though.
            “Our visibility in basketball certainly didn’t hurt,” Bradshaw said. “We have to acknowledge that.”
            That makes some sort of sense - I was one of those that looked into it because of the run.

            That being said though, that's still a huge gamble. For every FGCU, there's a dozen D1 schools with virtually no hope at relevance in a place that isn't as desirable as Florida. Also, FGCU hasn't tasted anything near relevancy since, so I'm sure those dividends have stopped paying off long ago.

            FGCU also has a sweet location and campus amenities that many other contemporaries don't have - so I still think it's best to invest in academics and amenities if growing enrollment is really the ultimate goal for these no-name D1s.

            It seems to me the move to D1 for most schools is just so they can say they are D1, and maybe get a shot at a one-and-done in the tournament. Most of the schools that could benefit the most from it have already moved (SDSU, NDSU, etc).

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by zimmy21 View Post

              I would argue that enrollment can be heavily attributed to athletics. Take out the athletics program and I would venture any school that had previously fielded programs would see a sharp decline in enrollment.
              I understand the concept of athletics as the front porch of the university, but moving from d2 to D1 also ran isn't increasing enrollment in most cases. I can see the example of a team making a run in March madness and people finding out that it's a beautiful school on the beach & and deciding to go there. That's not the norm, though.

              What I'm saying is that I haven't seena direct correlation between moving from D2 to Iaa and enrollment. Pitt state could go D1 and they would never ever.have an enrollment over 15,000.


              What I'm not saying is that sports add nothing to a university.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Predatory Primates View Post

                I understand the concept of athletics as the front porch of the university, but moving from d2 to D1 also ran isn't increasing enrollment in most cases. I can see the example of a team making a run in March madness and people finding out that it's a beautiful school on the beach & and deciding to go there. That's not the norm, though.

                What I'm saying is that I haven't seena direct correlation between moving from D2 to Iaa and enrollment. Pitt state could go D1 and they would never ever.have an enrollment over 15,000.


                What I'm not saying is that sports add nothing to a university.
                While I love college athletics, I generally agree. There's a reason no other country in the world places an emphasis on athletics in their universities. It's not normal. It's weird.
                2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                  I mean.....those are the other sports. All the blueblood schools are at the top of almost every sport, which is why it is dumb to move up to D1 and try and compete for titles. The top baseball schools are in the SEC, the top softball schools are in the SEC and Big 12, the top volleyball schools are in the SEC/Big 12/Pac 10, the top gymnastics schools are in the SEC/Pac 10/Big 10, the top track schools are in the SEC/Pac 10, the top golf schools are in the Pac 10/SEC, the top tennis schools are in the SEC/Pac 10, the top basketball schools are in the SEC/ACC/Pac 10, etc. The only sports that really give any non-P5 schools a chance are the ancillary sports like cross country, water polo, etc.

                  So if your school's entire reason for going D1 is to compete against the best and win championships, they're liars and being disingenuous. If your school comes out and says their entire reason for going D1 is to just try and boost enrollment by saying you get to compete against the actual good programs, then that's fine, but I want them to be honest about it. That's why I never want GV to move D1. I do not want to have their ceiling go from competing for a national title in virtually every sport in D2 to being competing for a conference title in some conference the general population has never heard of, and MAYBE, if you're super lucky, pulling a 15-over-2 upset in March Madness once every 30 years.
                  Not to mention that the overall ceiling for GVSU going D1 would be eventually ending up in the MAC. While we could stack up pretty well with them and have been recruiting against them for years, its still not the best overall conference in FBS and quite honestly some of those schools would really be better off as FCS programs. All in all, going D1 is just spending another good 10 million more of the athletics budget, and just getting your name to show up on ESPN's ticker.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bigmrg74 View Post

                    Not to mention that the overall ceiling for GVSU going D1 would be eventually ending up in the MAC. While we could stack up pretty well with them and have been recruiting against them for years, its still not the best overall conference in FBS and quite honestly some of those schools would really be better off as FCS programs. All in all, going D1 is just spending another good 10 million more of the athletics budget, and just getting your name to show up on ESPN's ticker.
                    Exactly. I find it entirely pointless to go D1 unless your MINIMUM yearly athletic budget is over 150 million. To go D1 and spend 30 million a year, which is what most MAC schools are doing, trying to compete against the SEC and Big 10 spending 200 million plus a year, is stupid. Right now, GV's athletic budget is around 15 million. They'd have to DOUBLE it to even compete with the MAC schools, and they'd have to multiply it by TEN to be competitive at the D1 level as a whole.
                    2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

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                    • #25
                      It’s all about the money or at least the potential for money. For UNA, it’s meant record increases in enrollment with 15 consecutive terms of growth.

                      https://www.waaytv.com/news/una-expe...98752f664.html
                      FLORENCE – Enrollment at the University of North Alabama has topped 10,000 for the first time in institutional history, with gains across all student typ...
                      Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        They have been growing for 8 years, but the move to D1 which started in 2018 was the cause? Not the expanded degree and doctoral programs?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by UNALions View Post
                          It’s all about the money or at least the potential for money. For UNA, it’s meant record increases in enrollment with 15 consecutive terms of growth.

                          https://www.waaytv.com/news/una-expe...98752f664.html
                          It's pretty remarkable what a university can achieve when they put a strong focus on academics. Good for UNA.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Not to get too Michigan-centric on the general forum, but in our state, I'm not sure that being D1 necessarily plays as big of a role in enrollment as it may elsewhere. Grand Valley and Wayne State both have enrollments greater than the 3 Michigan MAC schools, Western, Eastern, and Central (which itself has been hemorrhaging the most students in the state) and Oakland, which moved from the GLIAC to the Horizon.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by GorillaTeacher View Post
                              They have been growing for 8 years, but the move to D1 which started in 2018 was the cause? Not the expanded degree and doctoral programs?
                              “Terms” would be the operative word here. There are three terms in a year. So, five years, which just happens to be the amount of time UNA has been in D1. Yes, the expanded programs have helped.
                              Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                                It's pretty remarkable what a university can achieve when they put a strong focus on academics. Good for UNA.
                                I’m excited for them, too! They just graduated their first doctoral student.

                                But, in relation to athletics, most schools are chasing money that may or may not happen. One thing is for certain. There is no money to be made in D2. That said, there is also no money to be made in FCS. Some other D1 sports, yes.
                                A student at the University of North Alabama (UNA) will be awarded a doctorate degree for the first time in school history.
                                Last edited by UNALions; 05-10-2023, 10:33 AM.
                                Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

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