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How do you know if a D-II school made the right decision to go D-I?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by UNALions View Post

    “Terms” would be the operative word here. There are three terms in a year. So, five years, which just happens to be the amount of time UNA has been in D1. Yes, the expanded programs have helped.
    They do trimesters? Summer "term" doesn't count as a term anywhere I have ever heard of.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by GorillaTeacher View Post

      They do trimesters? Summer "term" doesn't count as a term anywhere I have ever heard of.
      It usually follows the financial aid awarded to students by spring and fall semester.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by UNALions View Post

        I’m excited for them, too! They just graduated their first doctoral student.

        But, in relation to athletics, most schools are chasing money that may or may not happen. One thing is for certain. There is no money to be made in D2. That said, there is also no money to be made in FCS. Some other D1 sports, yes.
        It depends on what you count as revenue. D3 sports, for example, is extremely lucrative.

        But the true moneymakers aren't the mid-majors for the most part, it's the big sports at the big schools, and maybe sometimes hockey. I highly doubt MAC football is a true moneymaker.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bigmrg74 View Post

          Not to mention that the overall ceiling for GVSU going D1 would be eventually ending up in the MAC. While we could stack up pretty well with them and have been recruiting against them for years, its still not the best overall conference in FBS and quite honestly some of those schools would really be better off as FCS programs. All in all, going D1 is just spending another good 10 million more of the athletics budget, and just getting your name to show up on ESPN's ticker.
          I'm not sure if your post is talking financially, competitively or geographically, but I think you have a good point here. Speaking geographically, I think it's important for anyone looking at D2 to FCS or FCS to FBS is who is around you. I think that's a big reason why NDSU has stayed FCS. What's the next level up around them? MAC and MWC are the two nearest fits and neither really fits the profile both for NDSU or for what the conferences are looking for.

          I actually think GVSU in the MAC would be fine, but what's in it for the MAC right now? I don't see a school jumping from D2 to FBS any time soon, so they need a FCS stopover first too (OVC?).

          The Dakota schools made their jump at the right time. They wanted to move up, had the resource base ready, and the MidContinent was floundering at best and needed stability. I have said for years and still believe there should be a reshuffling among the MVC, Summit and MVFC, similar to how the Big East and AAC are now divided. That could create more opportunities and better visibility for those conferences.

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          • #35
            I can tell you that WSSU and Savannah State know that they didn't make the correct decision to go D1.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by LegalRam View Post
              I can tell you that WSSU and Savannah State know that they didn't make the correct decision to go D1.
              I would absolutely argue that the East Coast is rather oversaturated with these smaller conferences, making it much harder to break in and make an impact.

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              • #37
                Le Moyne is going D1. But, it’s a much easier task financially for schools that don’t have football.



                Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post

                  I would absolutely argue that the East Coast is rather oversaturated with these smaller conferences, making it much harder to break in and make an impact.
                  I agree. The additional problem is with conferences like the MEAC, Big South, and ASUN any D2 school in the Mid-Atlantic and South East that shows an ounce of interest knows they will have a place to land if they want to move up. No matter if it's a good idea or not.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by UNALions View Post
                    Le Moyne is going D1. But, it’s a much easier task financially for schools that don’t have football.
                    That will be the fifth member of the Northeast 10 to go there since 2008 (Bryant). LIU-Post, Merrimack, and Stonehill are still there.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Stanger86 View Post
                      I'm not sure if your post is talking financially, competitively or geographically, but I think you have a good point here. Speaking geographically, I think it's important for anyone looking at D2 to FCS or FCS to FBS is who is around you. I think that's a big reason why NDSU has stayed FCS. What's the next level up around them? MAC and MWC are the two nearest fits and neither really fits the profile both for NDSU or for what the conferences are looking for.

                      I actually think GVSU in the MAC would be fine, but what's in it for the MAC right now? I don't see a school jumping from D2 to FBS any time soon, so they need a FCS stopover first too (OVC?).
                      IMO, NDSU proves how nuanced this discussion can be - they are a rare exception of a school that can make a competitive impact immediately in FBS, yet they won't gain much by it. They've carved out quite the niche for themselves that no other FCS school has replicated to any degree (even SDSU).

                      Besides losing the chance to compete for titles and every meaningful rivalry they have currently - they also lose the title of the little FCS school in the middle of nowhere that can compete with the P5. It's what made them as close to a name-brand school as possible for FCS. I have a feeling that those in charge know this and don't want to give it up so soon.

                      tl;dr - being FCS is what makes them interesting. It's what brings them national attention and that would be tough to replicate at the FBS level.

                      But yes, I agree geography plays into it as well. They'll never be accepted into the Big10 (the thought of which is... hilarious) and that doesn't leave them with a great option.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                        IMO, NDSU proves how nuanced this discussion can be - they are a rare exception of a school that can make a competitive impact immediately in FBS, yet they won't gain much by it. They've carved out quite the niche for themselves that no other FCS school has replicated to any degree (even SDSU).

                        Besides losing the chance to compete for titles and every meaningful rivalry they have currently - they also lose the title of the little FCS school in the middle of nowhere that can compete with the P5. It's what made them as close to a name-brand school as possible for FCS. I have a feeling that those in charge know this and don't want to give it up so soon.

                        tl;dr - being FCS is what makes them interesting. It's what brings them national attention and that would be tough to replicate at the FBS level.

                        But yes, I agree geography plays into it as well. They'll never be accepted into the Big10 (the thought of which is... hilarious) and that doesn't leave them with a great option.
                        I would assume they'd be a Big 12 candidate more so than a Big 10 candidate. Obviously that wouldn't happen straight out of FCS, though. They'd probably have to go to a G5 conference like the Mountain West first.
                        2021 D2Football Fantasy Champion

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by KleShreen View Post

                          I would assume they'd be a Big 12 candidate more so than a Big 10 candidate. Obviously that wouldn't happen straight out of FCS, though. They'd probably have to go to a G5 conference like the Mountain West first.
                          True point, I forgot about the Big 12. They're hanging in there..

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post

                            IMO, NDSU proves how nuanced this discussion can be - they are a rare exception of a school that can make a competitive impact immediately in FBS, yet they won't gain much by it. They've carved out quite the niche for themselves that no other FCS school has replicated to any degree (even SDSU).

                            Besides losing the chance to compete for titles and every meaningful rivalry they have currently - they also lose the title of the little FCS school in the middle of nowhere that can compete with the P5. It's what made them as close to a name-brand school as possible for FCS. I have a feeling that those in charge know this and don't want to give it up so soon.

                            tl;dr - being FCS is what makes them interesting. It's what brings them national attention and that would be tough to replicate at the FBS level.

                            But yes, I agree geography plays into it as well. They'll never be accepted into the Big10 (the thought of which is... hilarious) and that doesn't leave them with a great option.
                            You make some good points here, especially the idea (and please correct me if I'm incorrect) that even a successful school like NDSU that made the move to D1 can accept where they are and to not keep looking for the next big thing after a few years of success. Just because they nearly beat Arizona this past season doesn't mean they would succeed in the Pac-12.

                            Are there schools in D2 that could possibly be successful in D1? Sure there are, and some of them have already been mentioned here, like GVSU. Ferris, West Florida, and NWMSU (and I'm sure some others too) might be as well. But is it better to be a titan at D2 or just some other school in FCS? I went to a Northeast 10 school and the Northeast Conference is gobbling up their schools at quite the rate, and I know I looked at some of them (Merrimack and Stonehill) and I'm not really sure why they did it.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by cwfenn View Post

                              You make some good points here, especially the idea (and please correct me if I'm incorrect) that even a successful school like NDSU that made the move to D1 can accept where they are and to not keep looking for the next big thing after a few years of success. Just because they nearly beat Arizona this past season doesn't mean they would succeed in the Pac-12.

                              Are there schools in D2 that could possibly be successful in D1? Sure there are, and some of them have already been mentioned here, like GVSU. Ferris, West Florida, and NWMSU (and I'm sure some others too) might be as well. But is it better to be a titan at D2 or just some other school in FCS? I went to a Northeast 10 school and the Northeast Conference is gobbling up their schools at quite the rate, and I know I looked at some of them (Merrimack and Stonehill) and I'm not really sure why they did it.
                              NDSU is a strange case - they had a ton of success beating P5 schools a few years ago. They were so efficient at it that no FBS school scheduled them for a few years until Arizona. That's how NDSU truly got their brand across was by beating those P5 schools. It wouldn't have the same intrigue if they moved up. That being said, I do think they could be competitive out of the gate in a lesser conference, but I don't think they have much to gain from moving up (and maybe even some to lose).

                              The discussion always revolves around the premise that A) it's always a worthwhile move or B) that it's a gamble, but the upside is so great that it's always worth trying regardless of the risk. I think realistically, there are a ton of D1 schools that get zero real benefit being D1 besides the title.

                              As for Stonehill and Merrimack, they are hockey schools - so that might have something to do with it. I'm not sure how that dynamic works on the east coast.

                              Anyway, to answer your question - I'd rather one of my schools (MSU) continue to dominate D2 than be a nobody in D1, but that's just me. I have zero interest in watching them play in the PFL or OVC. I'd also like us to keep the emphasis on building a national championship hockey team than divert those resources to other sports, but that's just me again.


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                              • #45
                                Le Moyne AD Beretta is a “huge proponent” of hockey and says the department will take a hard look at adding men’s and women’s programs as it transitions to DI. “I come from a hockey background at (Army). I was the executive chair of the Atlantic Hockey committee for several years. I sat a term on the NCAA rules committee. I’m a huge hockey person. If we had a rink that was on-campus, it would be a no-brainer. … There have been discussions about some development that might take place here in the area that would make it an absolute slam dunk for us.” Beretta and President LeMura have also identified women’s bowling, field hockey and men’s volleyball as potential additions, though football is not on the Dolphins’ radar.
                                Le Moyne held an on-campus event on Thursday celebrating its choice to move up to Division I.
                                Go GSC and Roar LIONS!!

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