How do you know if a D-II school made the right decision to go D-I?

[AlexTheHAMMER]

Matt Brown of Extra Points published this article this morning, entitled How do you know if a D-II school made the right decision to go D-I?

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/know...decision-go-di

Just curious what everyone's thoughts are. He uses two schools specifically (Queens and St. Thomas (MN)) which have had varying success at the D1 level so far, but are also reaping the benefits of enrollment, fundraising, and other items.

[zimmy21]

Any school looking to move to D1 for titles are fools. Success will be measured based on the enrollment increase and money raised. Some schools are scared, when they should be seizing the moment.

[Redwing]

Any school looking to move to D1 for titles are fools. Success will be measured based on the enrollment increase and money raised. Some schools are scared, when they should be seizing the moment.

Care to explain that "scared" comment? Moving up is big money. Getting those dollars back are typically under major scrutiny. I'm not seeing a fear factor... other than being accountable for millions of dollars of potentially wasteful spending. I do agree there CAN be tangible benefits for a school to move up if done the right way though.

[Predatory Primates]

Any school looking to move to D1 for titles are fools. Success will be measured based on the enrollment increase and money raised. Some schools are scared, when they should be seizing the moment.

I agree that the measure of success is in dollars.

That said, if you field crap teams, you get crap donations. Not sure about enrollment increase, as I'm not sure sports has much to do with that.

[KleShreen]

I will always think it is foolish for any school to go D1 without already having enough money in their account to fully fund in the upper half of D1 schools for at least the first 15 years. It is absurdly stupid, IMO, to move up to D1 strictly so your school name can be on the ESPN ticker showing you getting your face kicked in every day in every sport, or making your athletic department's biggest goal be to make it to the Quick Lane Bowl in Detroit.

Then again, I'm all about winning. I think it does a disservice to your potential student-athletes if you go recruit kids and have to essentially tell them right from the jump "hey, you won't be coming here to win national titles." If that's the case, eliminate athletics from the university model.

[Purple Mav Man]

Matt Brown of Extra Points published this article this morning, entitled How do you know if a D-II school made the right decision to go D-I?

https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/know...decision-go-di

Just curious what everyone's thoughts are. He uses two schools specifically (Queens and St. Thomas (MN)) which have had varying success at the D1 level so far, but are also reaping the benefits of enrollment, fundraising, and other items.

St Thomas is a bad example. They had SO MUCH money to begin with, and were already on solid ground with enrollment, and trending. I know nothing about Queens. Also, it seems much easier for smaller private schools to make the jump than larger state schools.

[Purple Mav Man]

Any school looking to move to D1 for titles are fools. Success will be measured based on the enrollment increase and money raised. Some schools are scared, when they should be seizing the moment.

I know you want MSU to go D1, but that would be a colossal mistake. The programs would be similar to the NCC days when they got ran off the field and the money wouldn’t be coming in. That sounds horrible. Some schools are making the smart decision.

[zimmy21]

Care to explain that "scared" comment? Moving up is big money. Getting those dollars back are typically under major scrutiny. I'm not seeing a fear factor... other than being accountable for millions of dollars of potentially wasteful spending. I do agree there CAN be tangible benefits for a school to move up if done the right way though.

Being scared financially is still scared. Big Risks for Big rewards, failures happen but nothing is gained if you never take a step forward. I believe some schools are ready, but unwilling stuck in place by fear.

[zimmy21]

I agree that the measure of success is in dollars.

That said, if you field crap teams, you get crap donations. Not sure about enrollment increase, as I'm not sure sports has much to do with that.

I would argue that enrollment can be heavily attributed to athletics. Take out the athletics program and I would venture any school that had previously fielded programs would see a sharp decline in enrollment.

[zimmy21]

I will always think it is foolish for any school to go D1 without already having enough money in their account to fully fund in the upper half of D1 schools for at least the first 15 years. It is absurdly stupid, IMO, to move up to D1 strictly so your school name can be on the ESPN ticker showing you getting your face kicked in every day in every sport, or making your athletic department's biggest goal be to make it to the Quick Lane Bowl in Detroit.

Then again, I'm all about winning. I think it does a disservice to your potential student-athletes if you go recruit kids and have to essentially tell them right from the jump "hey, you won't be coming here to win national titles." If that's the case, eliminate athletics from the university model.

I understand the want for winning, god do i understand, however its just not going to happen for any program that makes the leap for quite some time, but what gains could be made for the school as a whole with the jump would be lost if nobody pushed forward. Take your lumps, grow and succeed as early as possible!

[zimmy21]

I know you want MSU to go D1, but that would be a colossal mistake. The programs would be similar to the NCC days when they got ran off the field and the money wouldn’t be coming in. That sounds horrible. Some schools are making the smart decision.

You just simply wouldn't know until you did it.

[GorillaTeacher]

I would argue that enrollment can be heavily attributed to athletics. Take out the athletics program and I would venture any school that had previously fielded programs would see a sharp decline in enrollment.

I think enrollment is more affected in the institutions where the student-athlete is a significant majority of the student population. I don't think non-athletes suddenly choose to go to Lindendwood or USI simply because they are now a D1 school.

JMU went from FCS to FBS and their undergrad enrollment only went up a couple hundred. But it was also already growing, and didn't grow faster.

[KleShreen]

I understand the want for winning, god do i understand, however its just not going to happen for any program that makes the leap for quite some time, but what gains could be made for the school as a whole with the jump would be lost if nobody pushed forward. Take your lumps, grow and succeed as early as possible!

What is the best example of any D2 school moving up in the last 50 years? There's some that find FCS football success, like NDSU. But who are the success stories at the Division I level as a whole, or FBS football? Boise State is the best football example in the last 50 years, and their ceiling was winning the Fiesta Bowl. They have not been competitive in any other sport. NDSU, for all the FCS titles they have won, have not won anything in any other sport. And those are the two most successful examples! Anyone moving up is torpedoing their entire athletic program from winning anything besides maybe in one sport, if they hyperfocus all their assets there.

[Buffalo/Islander Alum]

Just my opinion only but I think the jump is more difficult with the transfer portal. Fielding and keeping competitive teams are a current challenge even for existing small and mid major schools when they are unable to keep star players around for only a year until they bolt for a "higher level school".

[Runnin' Cat]

What is the best example of any D2 school moving up in the last 50 years? There's some that find FCS football success, like NDSU. But who are the success stories at the Division I level as a whole, or FBS football? Boise State is the best football example in the last 50 years, and their ceiling was winning the Fiesta Bowl. They have not been competitive in any other sport. NDSU, for all the FCS titles they have won, have not won anything in any other sport. And those are the two most successful examples! Anyone moving up is torpedoing their entire athletic program from winning anything besides maybe in one sport, if they hyperfocus all their assets there.

There aren't many FBS football national championship schools that have won in other sports, outside of golf, gymnastics, softball, etc.