D2 Question for Brandon and other Admin of D2Football

[Bisonfan from FLA]

With the recent announcement about NIL and dollars and the discussions on this board about the NCAA and the possible lack of interest in non Power 5 schools, what is your opinion/thoughts/insight into the future of D2 sports and D2 Football in particular? Also what about a possible need to have FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA make realignments? What is the future of D2 sports?

[Matt Witwicki]

Bison fan, it’s simply too early too know what the college football landscape will look like until the dominos really start to fall. Most of what’s occurring is based around the high dollar payment of players and the true FBS breaking away from the pack. There’s a real chance that D2 doesn’t change a lot due to the fact that the payment of players at our level is not seen a lot or small dollars in comparison. We really won’t know what this all may look like in a few years until additional ripples take place..such as possibly the top FCS teams wanting to compete with the G5 level that’s seemingly being created as a tier 2. At this point though, it’s all speculation and doesn’t seem to be impacting the upcoming 2024 season.

[Bisonfan from FLA]

Thank you Matt for the insight. Still a "wait and see" situation and your thoughts are that any "trickle down" may only have a negligible impact on D2. Okay, wait and see.

Any others have thougths?

[tsull]

Thank you Matt for the insight. Still a "wait and see" situation and your thoughts are that any "trickle down" may only have a negligible impact on D2. Okay, wait and see.

Any others have thougths?

I think in the near future all the small colleges division 2 on down ought to think about leaving the NCAA sooner rather than later. The power schools have said they don't even want schools like Vanderbilt and Northwestern around. I'm a Washington State Cougar Fan and they ditched us in no time. They won't care about division 2 on down.

Yes this season is safe but really the small colleges need to reorganize because stuff like travel money from the NCAA is going to go away. The big schools have already said they don't want to support even other Division 1 prominent universities. Just sitting back and watching the world go by or hope the NCAA is going to self correct is crazy thinking. It's best to stay ahead of the posse, and form your own organization. It certainly could be better run than the NCAA.

[MooseLodge]

I'm in the inner circle of a D2 and things are really up in the air. Predictions range from D2 taking on a bunch of new teams that can't afford D1, to not much changing in D2, to there being no varsity sports below P4 within the next five years. A lot of this is going to be decided in the court, the biggie being mandatory employment of athletes. If the Dartmouth case is upheld and athletes are indeed considered employees, you have hundreds of universities ditching varsity sports overnight, because there is no feasible way to employ several hundred more people, comply with state employment and workers comp law, etc.

The employment question is truly an existential threat to varsity sports for most universities, regardless of level. It could be that ninety percent of universities have to convert to a D3 model or club sport model. Your playing on the team is strictly voluntary. I see that as the most likely outcome, because I believe that the Dartmouth ruling will be upheld.

[tsull]

I'm in the inner circle of a D2 and things are really up in the air. Predictions range from D2 taking on a bunch of new teams that can't afford D1, to not much changing in D2, to there being no varsity sports below P4 within the next five years. A lot of this is going to be decided in the court, the biggie being mandatory employment of athletes. If the Dartmouth case is upheld and athletes are indeed considered employees, you have hundreds of universities ditching varsity sports overnight, because there is no feasible way to employ several hundred more people, comply with state employment and workers comp law, etc.

The employment question is truly an existential threat to varsity sports for most universities, regardless of level. It could be that ninety percent of universities have to convert to a D3 model or club sport model. Your playing on the team is strictly voluntary. I see that as the most likely outcome, because I believe that the Dartmouth ruling will be upheld.

I don't get how going out for a small college team is being an employee. They get absolutely zero TV money, maybe a little bit of scholarship money which they should be thankful for, I don't see why they'd have to eliminate varsity sports because they can't pay them.

Here's an idea: If you want to get a part-time job go get it and don't play sports. I don't understand why it's considered a job, you either go out for the team at the small college level or you don't. If you're recruited and you decide to play for that small college, you're on the team. If the sport keeps you from getting a part-time job while in college, you quit the sport or try and balance the two. It strikes me as very odd. Also the Dartmouth people better go after the student newspaper people, student broadcasting people, every club on campus, drama and music, those two take as much if not more time than sports, student government, Where do they stop?

[CalifOKRA]

Do some schools jump to the NAIA? I haven't heard much talk about this possibility.
I guess as a very distant competitor, the NAIA has to be enjoying the potential downfall of the NCAA.

The D3 model, as some of you have mentioned, may be the future of small school sports. I wonder if that would actually help some schools financially.

[tsull]

Do some schools jump to the NAIA? I haven't heard much talk about this possibility.
I guess as a very distant competitor, the NAIA has to be enjoying the potential downfall of the NCAA.

The D3 model, as some of you have mentioned, may be the future of small school sports. I wonder if that would actually help some schools financially.

The NAIA in the Northwest was good, but the private schools didn't want to play the state schools, so they took their ball and went D3. Meanwhile, that move cost WWU, Azusa, Humboldt State, and others to abandon football. Now CWU and WOU are in a Texas league. The NAIA could take the schools that wanted to play scholarship and they would be NAIA D1, and the non-scholarship would be NAIA D2. I guess the legal eagles would go after NAIA, too, I don't know. I don't see how anyone could go after small college, they don't have TV contracts. No one is making money, but the NCAA is zero for 100 in lawsuits, so they'd probably lose. Remember, the big lawsuit was from an Arizona State swimmer. That dude is worth negative NIL money and I'd pay him so I wouldn't have to watch, same with Dartmouth basketball.

Right now, NAIA looks like a good option. The Power 4 are going to sue to not support lower schools anyway, so why stay in the NCAA. I was told when my alma mater went D2 it was all for travel money to nationals ... we don't make nationals in hardly anything, so a strange argument. A lot of regional schools stayed NAIA and at last look they still have football and play it in the West.

[KleShreen]

In the immediate future, I think you should just expect that D2 schools are not going to have that 4-year "stud" player for his entire career anymore. If they are good players in D2, they're likely going to take money and a full scholarship to move up when they can. I think the number of multi-time All-Americans is going to be slim, limited to a very small number of players and schools with certain environments.

[Herb Street]

The NAIA in the Northwest was good, but the private schools didn't want to play the state schools, so they took their ball and went D3. Meanwhile, that move cost WWU, Azusa, Humboldt State, and others to abandon football. Now CWU and WOU are in a Texas league. The NAIA could take the schools that wanted to play scholarship and they would be NAIA D1, and the non-scholarship would be NAIA D2. I guess the legal eagles would go after NAIA, too, I don't know. I don't see how anyone could go after small college, they don't have TV contracts. No one is making money, but the NCAA is zero for 100 in lawsuits, so they'd probably lose. Remember, the big lawsuit was from an Arizona State swimmer. That dude is worth negative NIL money and I'd pay him so I wouldn't have to watch, same with Dartmouth basketball.

Right now, NAIA looks like a good option. The Power 4 are going to sue to not support lower schools anyway, so why stay in the NCAA. I was told when my alma mater went D2 it was all for travel money to nationals ... we don't make nationals in hardly anything, so a strange argument. A lot of regional schools stayed NAIA and at last look they still have football and play it in the West.

Employment law will apply to the NAIA as well.

[tsull]

Employment law will apply to the NAIA as well.

Do high school kids get paid, too?

College drama and music?

College student media?

College clubs?

College student council?

Are they all now getting paid? They can't have it just I sports? If this is the case, most colleges can't afford this. Sure, Ohio State, Michigan, there are 100's of other colleges. So they have a lot of work to do going after all these clubs.

What about high school prom committee? High school student council? High school band?

Junior high sports? Junior high clubs and music?

How deep can they take this?

[tsull]

I know of a Christmas concert at a university in the northwest that annually draws 4,000 people to the show. The concert is by the university choir and University band. Will they have to be paid for the show?

Marching bands playing in front of 100,000 people sometimes. How do we know that a good portion of the people in the fans might come just for the band? Probably not many but there are some. How many of the upwards of 200 marching band members now get paid because of this new law?

I've gone to university drama productions that have outdrawn men's basketball. Does the rule of employment go into that, too? And if it does I hope the Dartmouth people are happy about bankrupting colleges all across the country. I'm sure they won't think about it because they're Ivy League a-holes.

[GorillaTeacher]

This isn’t a law. This a settlement between the ncaa and the players. They’ve agreed to pay athletes and revenue sharing. Much of this will have to be ironed out.

[tsull]

This isn’t a law. This a settlement between the ncaa and the players. They’ve agreed to pay athletes and revenue sharing. Much of this will have to be ironed out.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't believe in NAIA was involved in this.

[GorillaTeacher]

Furthermore, this settlement only directly affects power 4 schools and the likes. G5 and FCS are hurt financially, because they will get a reduction in revenue from the ncaa to cover the cost. No changes have been made to the lower divisions.

Some things that could happen, are that football teams would have a roster limit, but all members could receive scholarships. There are some big questions about title IX and how many non revenue sports are going to get tanked.