G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

[Brandon]

Exactly...You would think that a school that really really wanted to join a conference would take every opportunity to schedule them in OOC games. But that clearly doesn't happen. Couple that with the public statements that have come from NDC about how happy they are in the MEC and the insignifigant travel distance savings of jumping to the GMAC and it's pretty clear that there is not a compelling reason or desire to move.

After 9 years and counting, pretty obvious that the "NDC to the GMAC" is more a desire of some than it is a real thing.

NDC as part of the GMAC makes sense, but so does Hillsdale returning to the GLIAC and Kentucky Wesleyan returning to the GLVC. Tiffin and Findlay belong in the GLIAC as much as they belong in the GMAC, geographically.

[boatcapt]

And D&E going to the MEC, ultimately money generally wins out over bad blood.

D&E didn't generally have bad blood with the MEC when the WVIAC split-up. I think D&E to the MEC was because of some sort of friendship relationship because they just don't meet any of the MEC expectations for it's members.

AB is a different story...one that has been covered in detail in the past on this board so I won't go into it again. Suffice to say that there was bad blood between the two. Took a pretty major shake-up at AB for the MEC to bring them in.

[Brandon]

D&E didn't generally have bad blood with the MEC when the WVIAC split-up. I think D&E to the MEC was because of some sort of friendship relationship because they just don't meet any of the MEC expectations for it's members.

AB is a different story...one that has been covered in detail in the past on this board so I won't go into it again. Suffice to say that there was bad blood between the two. Took a pretty major shake-up at AB for the MEC to bring them in.

Geographically, A-B in the MEC is what makes sense.

[boatcapt]

Geographically, A-B in the MEC is what makes sense.

Yep. Not saying that geography is not a factor just that it is not the only factor schools consider. I also think that sometimes we over estimate the geographic differences from one conference to another. Certanly geography can trump other factors if the difference is dramatic OR if the school is in severe financial difficulty, but neither appear to be present in the case of NDC and the MEC/GMAC. NDC is a really good fit in the MEC from a level of competition, school size, commitment to athletic and geographic standpoint. Beyond a relatively small geographic advantage, there really is no compelling reason for NDC to leave the MEC. Buuuuuttttt...Could say the same thing about NDC in the GMAC or possibly even the PSAC. As with a lot of teams in the PA/WV/OH/MD area, they would fit nicely in a number of conferences (Lincoln PA to the PSAC, Bowie to the MEC, Frostburg to the PSAC, Shepherd back to the MEC, etc).

[Brandon]

Right. Geography is obviously not the only factor.

[Uindy18]

Right. Geography is obviously not the only factor.

Agreed, but with the tighter budgets over the next year or two, schools are going to be looking to squeeze every penny put of anywhere they can get it. I think that would push a KWC to return to the GLVC and a NDC to go GMAC. If KWC bolts, that leaves TNU on even more of an island that they already are which could push them out to The Peach Belt, GSC, SAC, or maybe NAIA or D3. Uindy may take longer, but I think they could move over after NDC or if the GLVC loses a Lewis or if the GMAC attempts an Indiana expansion (Marain, St. Francis, Indiana Wesleyan, Taylor?)

[Brandon]

Indianapolis is in an island of its own. From my perspective, it belongs on the GLIAC first, the GLVC second, and anywhere else third.

[Uindy18]

Indianapolis is in an island of its own. From my perspective, it belongs on the GLIAC first, the GLVC second, and anywhere else third.

While I agree Uindy is an island ever since St. Joe closed, they definitely do not fit in the GLIAC any more than the GLVC. I would put the GMAC as slightly ahead of the GLVC for Uindy long term due to all those Ohio schools basically and if they add another Indiana school (I am rooting for Marian), it would be a no-brainer.

[Brandon]

Since we had diminished geography as the main focus, I was speaking more about culture and effort of the institution than I was about where travel would be easiest.

[Stea1th]

I still think NDC to the GMAC happens someday. In all honesty though, I thought it would have happened by now. I get the feeling that we pi$$ed some folks off pretty good. No worries. MEC is starting to feel like home.

[Uindy18]

I still think NDC to the GMAC happens someday. In all honesty though, I thought it would have happened by now. I get the feeling that we pi$$ed some folks off pretty good. No worries. MEC is starting to feel like home.

Ya, I would love to know what actually happened in those meetings to get NDC to walk. I wonder if had anything to do with the brief fling that NDC had in the GLIAC. Maybe NDC is in GMAC talks, GLIAC calls, NDC skips town, rest of GMAC gets left out in the cold and feelings are hurt.

[boatcapt]

While I agree Uindy is an island ever since St. Joe closed, they definitely do not fit in the GLIAC any more than the GLVC. I would put the GMAC as slightly ahead of the GLVC for Uindy long term due to all those Ohio schools basically and if they add another Indiana school (I am rooting for Marian), it would be a no-brainer.

Has anyone in a position of authority (President, AD, BOG) given any statements or interviews that they are unhappy were they are? Any statements or interviews saying they are looking to change conferences? Any serious media, beyond personal opinion, say that sources have told them that UIndy is considering a move? Orrrrr...Are we kind of were we are with NDC? Message board advice saying that they should move.

Side observation. UIndy and NDC kind of push against each other. At approx 330 miles apart, they don't contribute to the "driving distance" argument for either school. Also, UIndy is relatively close to KW (170 miles) and on the grand scheme, not THAT far from TNU (280 miles) which would make it more likely both stay in the GMAC. These two schools remaining in the GMAC largely mitigates the "driving distance" argument for NDC moving to the GMAC.

[BlueBlood]

The thing is, there really aren't enough of the original G-MAC schools still around to keep NDC out if they are the only ones who have an issue. Only Cedarville, KWC and Ursuline were members when NDC left them.

That tells me that the former GLIAC schools probably have some reservations too and NDC may have reservations.

NDC left the G-MAC for a combination of affiliate memberships with the GLIAC - football, M/W soccer, lacrosse, wrestling, maybe more (I forget). They went independent in their other sports. They only held those GLIAC affiliate memberships for one year before moving to the MEC. NDC knew that the OH schools were contemplating a move (I think the idea of the OH school breakaway was in newspapers as early as 2009, and they obviously had more info than we did), yet they jumped to the MEC anyway.

I have no idea what was said or done between the parties back then and probably nobody on this board does. But even the outside observer can see that NDC made two jumps in two years (I guess three jumps in three years if you count their prior conference) and that the other OH schools may view them as not being willing to gut out the painful route (like the other original G-MAC schools did) or the awkward route (being only an affiliate member of the GLIAC) in order to lay the groundwork for what is now a full-service legit D2 conference.

And I'm not thinking that this is entirely one-sided (NDC being "banished" due to its past actions). NDC obviously made a decision to align itself with the WV schools instead of the OH schools. They chose this.

All that said, I'm still in the "someday" camp. Like I said earlier, presidents and ADs eventually move on and folks forget or have no idea why lines are drawn the way they are. At some point, somebody will question if the lines are drawn right.

[Uindy18]

Has anyone in a position of authority (President, AD, BOG) given any statements or interviews that they are unhappy were they are? Any statements or interviews saying they are looking to change conferences? Any serious media, beyond personal opinion, say that sources have told them that UIndy is considering a move? Orrrrr...Are we kind of were we are with NDC? Message board advice saying that they should move.

Side observation. UIndy and NDC kind of push against each other. At approx 330 miles apart, they don't contribute to the "driving distance" argument for either school. Also, UIndy is relatively close to KW (170 miles) and on the grand scheme, not THAT far from TNU (280 miles) which would make it more likely both stay in the GMAC. These two schools remaining in the GMAC largely mitigates the "driving distance" argument for NDC moving to the GMAC.

The best I got is admittedly flimsy. When I was on campus as of 2018, the general thought process of most people in/around athletics that they wanted to see another strong school (an Ashland was the one I heard specifically) or two join the GMAC before Uindy would consider the jump. The other prevailing rumor was that nothing would happen until after Dr. Sue Wiley, the AD, retired. She did not want to deal with a conference move right before leaving. Both of those things have happened thus far.This is all heresay, but it is about all there is for the Uindy to GMAC rumor. This is to be expected though. As I said before, everyone is happy with the conference in their public statements until they leave.

[Uindy18]

The thing is, there really aren't enough of the original G-MAC schools still around to keep NDC out if they are the only ones who have an issue. Only Cedarville, KWC and Ursuline were members when NDC left them.

That tells me that the former GLIAC schools probably have some reservations too and NDC may have reservations.

NDC left the G-MAC for a combination of affiliate memberships with the GLIAC - football, M/W soccer, lacrosse, wrestling, maybe more (I forget). They went independent in their other sports. They only held those GLIAC affiliate memberships for one year before moving to the MEC. NDC knew that the OH schools were contemplating a move (I think the idea of the OH school breakaway was in newspapers as early as 2009, and they obviously had more info than we did), yet they jumped to the MEC anyway.

I have no idea what was said or done between the parties back then and probably nobody on this board does. But even the outside observer can see that NDC made two jumps in two years (I guess three jumps in three years if you count their prior conference) and that the other OH schools may view them as not being willing to gut out the painful route (like the other original G-MAC schools did) or the awkward route (being only an affiliate member of the GLIAC) in order to lay the groundwork for what is now a full-service legit D2 conference.

And I'm not thinking that this is entirely one-sided (NDC being "banished" due to its past actions). NDC obviously made a decision to align itself with the WV schools instead of the OH schools. They chose this.

All that said, I'm still in the "someday" camp. Like I said earlier, presidents and ADs eventually move on and folks forget or have no idea why lines are drawn the way they are. At some point, somebody will question if the lines are drawn right.

Right, maybe even one day, Cedarville will add a football team