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  • #31
    Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

    Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post
    The odd conference out in this discussion seems to be the MEC. With the PSAC and potentially the GMAC poaching one or more schools, added to the possible loss of financially distressed institutions like WJU, it seems that this league will be scrambling in the next 5 years to put together a 9 game league schedule.
    Based on what? Yes, the MEC did lose Shepherd and Wise but they have added back on the football side Frostburg, UNCP and WJU. That actually puts them in better shape than they were last year.

    The NDC and Urbana going to leave for the GMAC is a yearly rumor that has been around since the begining of the MEC and GMAC. If I had a dollar for every post on this board were someone heard from a reliable source that one or the other or both joining the GMAC is a "done deal," my savings account would have a considerable amount of extra benjamins in it. You never know what foolish moves a school will make in the future so anything is possible, but for now I'll chalk up the yearly NDC and/or Urbana is going to go to the GMAC as the annual dose of wishful thinking of some posters. Same with the UIndy to the GMAC or Ashland to the GMAC...annually we here from someone who has heard from someone who "knows" that they have committed to join the GMAC...just never seems to happen.

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    • #32
      Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

      Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
      Based on what? Yes, the MEC did lose Shepherd and Wise but they have added back on the football side Frostburg, UNCP and WJU. That actually puts them in better shape than they were last year.

      The NDC and Urbana going to leave for the GMAC is a yearly rumor that has been around since the begining of the MEC and GMAC. If I had a dollar for every post on this board were someone heard from a reliable source that one or the other or both joining the GMAC is a "done deal," my savings account would have a considerable amount of extra benjamins in it. You never know what foolish moves a school will make in the future so anything is possible, but for now I'll chalk up the yearly NDC and/or Urbana is going to go to the GMAC as the annual dose of wishful thinking of some posters. Same with the UIndy to the GMAC or Ashland to the GMAC...annually we here from someone who has heard from someone who "knows" that they have committed to join the GMAC...just never seems to happen.
      The talk on this board sounds more serious than wishful thinking. I don't considering WJU/WU a viable entity going forward. If I'm a FB player and notice that the MBB, that won the MEC championship two seasons ago, has basically disbanded, I might consider not wasting my time. I could be wrong that doesn't look like a real +1. Now if you could talk SHU into returning both leagues would be well served. Time will tell.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

        Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post
        The talk on this board sounds more serious than wishful thinking. I don't considering WJU/WU a viable entity going forward. If I'm a FB player and notice that the MBB, that won the MEC championship two seasons ago, has basically disbanded, I might consider not wasting my time. I could be wrong that doesn't look like a real +1. Now if you could talk SHU into returning both leagues would be well served. Time will tell.
        This issue has been filled over the years with people who sound serious about the information they have about NDC and/or Urbana and/or Ashland moving to the GMAC...and it just doesn't happen. The new twist in this annual ritual of "serious" information includes Seton Hill and Gannon into the going to transfer to the GMAC discussion.
        Perhaps the GMAC wants thus to happen and clearly some of the posters with "inside information" want it to be true but a conferences and posters desires hardly raise to the level of a real rumor. Particularly when the rumor is floated year after year.

        Only thing we know for sure is that Shepherd went to the PSAC to replace Cheyney, Wise went to the SAC, MEC is adding Frostburg and UNCP to replace them, D&E left the GMAC for the MEC and Malone dropped athletics.

        But since we are engaged in wild rumors, here's what I've heard from "sources" recently. MEC has contacted Ashland about them joining. Ashland said they were interested but not right now. MEC has had talks with AB but both agreed not to move forward for the coming year. They have also talked to Walsh and discussions are on going. MEC has also talked to Pikeville and Bluefield (VA) and both have expressed a degree of interest. Also one unnamed PSAC state school has reached out to them recently to see what the MEC had to offer.

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        • #34
          Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

          Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
          This issue has been filled over the years with people who sound serious about the information they have about NDC and/or Urbana and/or Ashland moving to the GMAC...and it just doesn't happen. The new twist in this annual ritual of "serious" information includes Seton Hill and Gannon into the going to transfer to the GMAC discussion.
          Perhaps the GMAC wants thus to happen and clearly some of the posters with "inside information" want it to be true but a conferences and posters desires hardly raise to the level of a real rumor. Particularly when the rumor is floated year after year.

          Only thing we know for sure is that Shepherd went to the PSAC to replace Cheyney, Wise went to the SAC, MEC is adding Frostburg and UNCP to replace them, D&E left the GMAC for the MEC and Malone dropped athletics.

          But since we are engaged in wild rumors, here's what I've heard from "sources" recently. MEC has contacted Ashland about them joining. Ashland said they were interested but not right now. MEC has had talks with AB but both agreed not to move forward for the coming year. They have also talked to Walsh and discussions are on going. MEC has also talked to Pikeville and Bluefield (VA) and both have expressed a degree of interest. Also one unnamed PSAC state school has reached out to them recently to see what the MEC had to offer.
          Interesting !! Thanks

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

            My, My, My.

            I'm away for only a few days and Insidesource and BoatCapt are spilling tea all over the place.

            I'm not saying I'm inclined to believe much of it, but I always love speculation and info obtained directly from "sources".

            Seton Hill / Mercyhurst / Gannon to G-MAC -- Interesting. Seton Hill shared an NAIA conference with a decent portion of the current G-MAC. Mercyhurst and Gannon were GLIAC members up until 2008, so they have history with a decent portion of the G-MAC as well. In fact, I think Mercyhurst has shared history with Hillsdale, Findlay, Ashland and UIndy all the way back to the MIFC days. All 3 are lacrosse members of the G-MAC.

            UIndy to the G-MAC -- I thought this was a pipe dream at one time (they are currently #2 in D2 directors cup points, by the way). That said, I thought Hillsdale/Findlay/Tiffin was a pipe dream too, and it happened. Given the continued westward movement of the GLVC, their closest GLVC conference-mate closing, Bellarmine flirting with D1, etc - there are reasons that this might have some legs. Plus, they share the same GLIAC football history, plus MIFC history with Hillsdale Findlay, Ashland and Mercyhurst.

            NDC/Urbana to G-MAC -- This rumor has been around forever - and for obvious reasons. It makes sense. Both have a history with the G-MAC and were part of the old NAIA conference that the G-MAC essentially rebuilt. Both are better geographic fits in the G-MAC than the MEC. I'm sure that both have had frequent and ongoing discussions with the G-MAC and/or G-MAC schools regarding a potential someday move.

            Ashland to either the G-MAC or MEC -- Ashland said they would re-visit their affiliation in 2020. I'll take them at their word. No idea if they move or not. If they do, I think its the G-MAC. I highly doubt its the MEC.

            AB to MEC -- This is the opposite rumor to NDC/Urbana. Its been around forever - and again, for good reason. Same reasons - past history and better geography. Similar to NDC/Urbana, I can almost guarantee you that there have been ongoing discussions between AB and the MEC.

            Walsh to the MEC -- I don't believe this one at all. They were one of the NAIA schools that transitioned to D2 with the intent of meeting up with their conference-mates on the other side in a new D2 conference. After a decade of work, they finally got what they wanted. Unless something extreme happened behind the scenes that we don't know about, I cannot see this happening.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

              By the way - Walsh, Ohio Dominican, Notre Dame, Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill are all Catholic universities. Just an observation. Could be relevant, or it might not be.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
                By the way - Walsh, Ohio Dominican, Notre Dame, Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill are all Catholic universities. Just an observation. Could be relevant, or it might not be.
                As is WU. Perhaps a seven school Catholic conference???

                As for believing any of these off season musings based on information from supposed "sources," I agree, probably nothing to any of it. Does make for interesting off season discussion even if most of it is recycled year after year!
                Last edited by boatcapt; 06-03-2019, 07:42 PM.

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                • #38
                  Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                  Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
                  My, My, My.

                  I'm away for only a few days and Insidesource and BoatCapt are spilling tea all over the place.

                  I'm not saying I'm inclined to believe much of it, but I always love speculation and info obtained directly from "sources".

                  Seton Hill / Mercyhurst / Gannon to G-MAC -- Interesting. Seton Hill shared an NAIA conference with a decent portion of the current G-MAC. Mercyhurst and Gannon were GLIAC members up until 2008, so they have history with a decent portion of the G-MAC as well. In fact, I think Mercyhurst has shared history with Hillsdale, Findlay, Ashland and UIndy all the way back to the MIFC days. All 3 are lacrosse members of the G-MAC.

                  UIndy to the G-MAC -- I thought this was a pipe dream at one time (they are currently #2 in D2 directors cup points, by the way). That said, I thought Hillsdale/Findlay/Tiffin was a pipe dream too, and it happened. Given the continued westward movement of the GLVC, their closest GLVC conference-mate closing, Bellarmine flirting with D1, etc - there are reasons that this might have some legs. Plus, they share the same GLIAC football history, plus MIFC history with Hillsdale Findlay, Ashland and Mercyhurst.

                  NDC/Urbana to G-MAC -- This rumor has been around forever - and for obvious reasons. It makes sense. Both have a history with the G-MAC and were part of the old NAIA conference that the G-MAC essentially rebuilt. Both are better geographic fits in the G-MAC than the MEC. I'm sure that both have had frequent and ongoing discussions with the G-MAC and/or G-MAC schools regarding a potential someday move.

                  Ashland to either the G-MAC or MEC -- Ashland said they would re-visit their affiliation in 2020. I'll take them at their word. No idea if they move or not. If they do, I think its the G-MAC. I highly doubt its the MEC.

                  AB to MEC -- This is the opposite rumor to NDC/Urbana. Its been around forever - and again, for good reason. Same reasons - past history and better geography. Similar to NDC/Urbana, I can almost guarantee you that there have been ongoing discussions between AB and the MEC.

                  Walsh to the MEC -- I don't believe this one at all. They were one of the NAIA schools that transitioned to D2 with the intent of meeting up with their conference-mates on the other side in a new D2 conference. After a decade of work, they finally got what they wanted. Unless something extreme happened behind the scenes that we don't know about, I cannot see this happening.
                  Good information. I basically said the same thing about Walsh. All those schools transitioned with the same intent. Losing Malone may even help Walsh in the long haul.


                  AB to the MEC makes to much sense, but so does Urbana and NDC. This is all based on geography.

                  As for the PSAC, Gannon and Mercyhurst wanted in for YEARS before it was announced in 2007 that the PSAC will finally admit private schools after decades. They played in the PSAC in 2008 (I believe) for the first time. I know lacrosse aligns better in the GMAC, but I can't see them moving after decades of knocking at the door to get into the PSAC. I could be wrong, and crazier things have happened, but based on history I just don't see it. They would be going back on everything they fought for. Now Seton Hill is a different story. They were an all female college for years before transitioning. They never knocked on the PSAC's door like the two Erie schools did. I do see them as a possible jumper. Pitt-Johnstown is in the same category as Gannon and Mercy. They wanted in for years, and are now where they want to be.

                  All the other schools are public, and I find it hard to believe that one of them is considering leaving. They all founded together and stayed together. They all share the same beliefs. They all align perfectly, and in conference your longest trip is approx 2 hours, unless you travel from east/west. Why would one want to leave and significantly increase their travel?

                  And by the way, I do feel it is inevitable that Indy makes the jump. Based on history and location. Losing St. Joe's really hurt them, and they will be able to cut down on significant travel.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                    Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                    As is WU. Perhaps a seven school Catholic conference???

                    As for believing any of these off season musings based on information from supposed "sources," I agree, probably nothing to any of it. Does make for interesting off season discussion even if most of it is recycled year after year!


                    To play along, in this whole thread there still hasn't been one actual reason why the two Erie schools would even remotely entertain leaving the PSAC.

                    Keep in mind their whole reason for wanting to join the league just several years ago -- travel distance and local rivalries. That's (lack of) is the very reason they left the GLIAC.

                    UPJ isn't worth talking about ... there's zero chance they are leaving.

                    Seton Hill, while many in the PSAC would probably prefer they leave, is also an extreme long shot to actually do so. Seton Hill can travel to any West school in less than 3 hours -- many in less than an hour. The ONLY possible reason Seton Hill would possibly consider making the move is because it's just been overwhelmed in football and men's basketball. But, that would have to mean they care about the sports and want to quit treating football like an enrollment booster. Odds of departure: Less than 2 percent.

                    As for the 'unnamed' PSAC, non-private school, ... I'd put the odds of a PASSHE member school leaving the PSAC around the same as Elvis singing the anthem at IUP's home opener.

                    These athletic departments are all cash-strapped. Why in the world would they want to add even more expense and pump more money in to a product that would likely result in even less people paying attention?

                    The schools have to have something to gain by making such a drastic move. I can't see one thing any of them would gain.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                      I pretty much agree with both above posts.

                      Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill would make excellent G-MAC members - IF THEY NEEDED A CONFERENCE. They check all the boxes (small, private, church-affiliated schools). I'm just not convinced that they are unhappy where they are. It doesn't sound like anyone is.

                      The only thing I can think of is that they could just be keeping in touch for a "someday" plan. I know that we keep hearing rumors of PASSHE reform and possible consolidations down the road. Maybe they are just thinking that depending upon what happens, they may need (or just desire) an exit strategy. As affiliate members of the G-MAC they certainly have easy access for discussion.

                      The interesting thing about the schools that Insidesource listed is that every one of them has a strong connection to the G-MAC institutions. He didn't just haphazardly list a bunch of schools.

                      The core of the G-MAC are schools that have been together for decades. 9 of the 13 where either in the old NAIA conference or the GLIAC together. Most were in both. 7 were in the NAIA conference together (of the 9, Hillsdale and Lake Erie were not) and 7 were in the GLIAC together (of the 9, Cedarville and Ursuline were not).

                      Only the geographic outliers (TNU, KWC, AB and OVU) do not share this history.

                      So, given the above, it is interesting that the schools that Insidesource named all have the shared NAIA conference (NDC, Seton Hill) or GLIAC (Mercyhurst, Gannon, UIndy)pedigree.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                        Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
                        I pretty much agree with both above posts.

                        Mercyhurst, Gannon and Seton Hill would make excellent G-MAC members - IF THEY NEEDED A CONFERENCE. They check all the boxes (small, private, church-affiliated schools). I'm just not convinced that they are unhappy where they are. It doesn't sound like anyone is.

                        The only thing I can think of is that they could just be keeping in touch for a "someday" plan. I know that we keep hearing rumors of PASSHE reform and possible consolidations down the road. Maybe they are just thinking that depending upon what happens, they may need (or just desire) an exit strategy. As affiliate members of the G-MAC they certainly have easy access for discussion.

                        The interesting thing about the schools that Insidesource listed is that every one of them has a strong connection to the G-MAC institutions. He didn't just haphazardly list a bunch of schools.

                        The core of the G-MAC are schools that have been together for decades. 9 of the 13 where either in the old NAIA conference or the GLIAC together. Most were in both. 7 were in the NAIA conference together (of the 9, Hillsdale and Lake Erie were not) and 7 were in the GLIAC together (of the 9, Cedarville and Ursuline were not).

                        Only the geographic outliers (TNU, KWC, AB and OVU) do not share this history.

                        So, given the above, it is interesting that the schools that Insidesource named all have the shared NAIA conference (NDC, Seton Hill) or GLIAC (Mercyhurst, Gannon, UIndy)pedigree.
                        As you say, I don't think anyone is unhappy where they are at and playing who they are playing. Think about it, if travel $ was such a big motivator for the schools speculated about, why haven't they moved already? I mean, moving would represent instant savings and if the schools are that cash strapped, I'd think they would jump at the chance to move NOW and not wait 5+ years to do so. Same with the supposed burning desire to play the teams these schools played back in their NAIA days. If that was such a burning desire in the pit of their stomach, they would have moved years ago. Fact that they haven't for over five years now tells me that perhaps the burning desire to play old conference foes is only in the minds of some and they probably aren't the ones making the conference affiliation decisions.

                        I think the decision makers at each of the schools mentioned are pretty happy playing in the conference they are currently in and traveling what ever distance they are traveling. Unless something monumental changes, I don't really see a compelling reason for any of them to move. But as I've said before, sometimes schools move for all the wrong reasons and all it takes is an AD with a hard-on to play in another conference for whatever reason and there is a good chance it will happen...even if it makes little real sense.
                        Last edited by boatcapt; 06-04-2019, 02:45 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                          The 3 PSAC schools geographic fit in the PSAC is really good. So, they would have to be really unhappy there or super drawn to something else to justify a move.

                          The other schools mentioned are more of geographic issues, so a move could make sense even if they are pretty satisfied with their current conference. I don't think AB is unhappy in the G-MAC, but I get that they could save a lot of travel $ and time (kids out of class, in buses) by switching conferences. The same can be said for NDC/Urbana. If one of them moves, I don't think its any kind of indictment on their current conference.

                          UIndy and Ashland both fit in the geographic category too. I think both of them probably really want to stay where they are, but their conferences keep contracting in their direction and expanding in the opposite direction. UIndy saw KWC switch conferences, St. Joes close and Bellarmine is talking about going D1. Meanwhile, their conference has been adding schools in Missouri. Ashland saw every other OH school switch conferences and now is adding trips to Wisconsin. Their lacrosse team now has trips to Minnesota and Iowa.

                          For the geographic-issue schools, I don't think musical chairs has stopped just yet. I have no idea on timing. But remember, for years some folks on here were saying that D&E to the MEC "just makes too much geographic sense not to happen". That move is "finally" happening now. I expect that we will see some of the other long-discussed moves happen in the future as well.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                            Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
                            The 3 PSAC schools geographic fit in the PSAC is really good. So, they would have to be really unhappy there or super drawn to something else to justify a move.

                            The other schools mentioned are more of geographic issues, so a move could make sense even if they are pretty satisfied with their current conference. I don't think AB is unhappy in the G-MAC, but I get that they could save a lot of travel $ and time (kids out of class, in buses) by switching conferences. The same can be said for NDC/Urbana. If one of them moves, I don't think its any kind of indictment on their current conference.

                            UIndy and Ashland both fit in the geographic category too. I think both of them probably really want to stay where they are, but their conferences keep contracting in their direction and expanding in the opposite direction. UIndy saw KWC switch conferences, St. Joes close and Bellarmine is talking about going D1. Meanwhile, their conference has been adding schools in Missouri. Ashland saw every other OH school switch conferences and now is adding trips to Wisconsin. Their lacrosse team now has trips to Minnesota and Iowa.

                            For the geographic-issue schools, I don't think musical chairs has stopped just yet. I have no idea on timing. But remember, for years some folks on here were saying that D&E to the MEC "just makes too much geographic sense not to happen". That move is "finally" happening now. I expect that we will see some of the other long-discussed moves happen in the future as well.


                            I don't think the MEC actually wanted D&E ... but Shepherd joining the PSAC caused some chips to fall.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                              There is speculation on message boards about this school and that.

                              The bottom line is that the G-MAC has to expand. There is no question about it. You can't have a football league with 8 football schools and expecting each school to find 4 OOC games. It is not feasible. Tom Daeger showed that he has the ability as a commissioner to expand a conference. I guarantee he will show that ability as a leader to do it again.

                              D&E was let go from the G-MAC because: (a) they don't have football and, (b) they were an 'outlier' in geographic terms. They brought some needed olympic sports to the G-MAC. But it was easier to let them go without any penalty or time wait.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: G-MAC / GLIAC Updates

                                Originally posted by BlueBlood View Post
                                The 3 PSAC schools geographic fit in the PSAC is really good. So, they would have to be really unhappy there or super drawn to something else to justify a move.

                                The other schools mentioned are more of geographic issues, so a move could make sense even if they are pretty satisfied with their current conference. I don't think AB is unhappy in the G-MAC, but I get that they could save a lot of travel $ and time (kids out of class, in buses) by switching conferences. The same can be said for NDC/Urbana. If one of them moves, I don't think its any kind of indictment on their current conference.

                                UIndy and Ashland both fit in the geographic category too. I think both of them probably really want to stay where they are, but their conferences keep contracting in their direction and expanding in the opposite direction. UIndy saw KWC switch conferences, St. Joes close and Bellarmine is talking about going D1. Meanwhile, their conference has been adding schools in Missouri. Ashland saw every other OH school switch conferences and now is adding trips to Wisconsin. Their lacrosse team now has trips to Minnesota and Iowa.

                                For the geographic-issue schools, I don't think musical chairs has stopped just yet. I have no idea on timing. But remember, for years some folks on here were saying that D&E to the MEC "just makes too much geographic sense not to happen". That move is "finally" happening now. I expect that we will see some of the other long-discussed moves happen in the future as well.
                                But that still begs the question, if they are such a good geographic fit, why haven't they moved already? I mean if it is such a logical thing and such a big financial savings, I'd think they would have jumped at the chance to save money in these financially challenged times that most small schools find themselves in. Particularly in the case of NDC and Urbana that are supposed to "standing offers" from the GMAC, why haven't the jumped at the chance? Clearly there is something that is holding them up and making the GMAC not as good a fit as people on this board seem to think it is.

                                In the case of NDC, I proffer the following:

                                NDC is in a good place athletically in the MEC. They are coming off a football season were they won the SR1 and conference titles and in the process nocked the previous, and now departed, "top conference dog." With Shepherd gone, they probably believe they have the inside track to conference supremacy, the NCAA playoffs and if conference history holds, multiple SR1 titles. From a basketball standpoint, NDC see's its star on the ascendency in the MEC. Again, NCAA playoffs are a distinct possibility. Wrestling will be a full MEC sport starting this fall and along with NDC, the MEC will have a number of pretty good ranked DII teams in WU, WLU and UNCP. Swimming, while not a fully independent MEC sport (yet) will have seven teams competing with D&E, Frostburg and UNCP coming aboard to compliment NDC, Fairmont, Urbana and WVW.

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