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  • #46
    Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

    Unfortunately, I think you may be right.
    As you know I think the no punt style is based on sound data analytics.
    IMHO WLU should really consider this style and grab Kevin Kelley as a consultant, offensive coordinator, or head coach if the current coach retires.

    off-topic FYI

    I wondered why Coach Kevin Kelley of Pulaski Academy was not successful at D1 Presbyterian despite putting up huge offense and passing numbers. He quit after one year.
    The lack of success was not an indictment of the style, but the fact that he did not know to ask the right questions before taking the job.
    That school must be using football to keep their enrollment numbers up. Absolutely no commitment to football there.

    Here is the rest of the story.
    https://theathletic.com/3183743/2022...er-one-season/

    Kelley should probably spend some time developing a defensive counterpoint to his offense that relies exclusively on analytics.

    As for Kelley coming to WLU, does WLU's "commitment to football" seem that much greater than Presbyterian??

    Does Kelley's failure at Presbyterian mean his style is a failure? Perhaps but also, perhaps not...To put it in analytics terms, the sample size is too small.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

      Unfortunately, I think you may be right.
      As you know I think the no punt style is based on sound data analytics.
      IMHO WLU should really consider this style and grab Kevin Kelley as a consultant, offensive coordinator, or head coach if the current coach retires.

      off-topic FYI

      I wondered why Coach Kevin Kelley of Pulaski Academy was not successful at D1 Presbyterian despite putting up huge offense and passing numbers. He quit after one year.
      The lack of success was not an indictment of the style, but the fact that he did not know to ask the right questions before taking the job.
      That school must be using football to keep their enrollment numbers up. Absolutely no commitment to football there.

      Here is the rest of the story.
      https://theathletic.com/3183743/2022...er-one-season/

      There’s a YouTube series that documented his time there

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post


        As for Kelley coming to WLU, does WLU's "commitment to football" seem that much greater than Presbyterian??
        Regarding defense, at pulaski he generally outscored teams. Like crutchfield, he does not care how much opponent scores as long as he wins. Lol


        The athletic article was very revealing. Fairly safe to say wlu commitment is greater. At Presbyterian,
        - zero scholarships, which he knew.
        - charging football players full tuition for summer school, so no workouts before start of school. Tuition is 40k
        - they did not allow players to register early for classes. Many players had class schedule conflicts with practice.
        - existing grandfathered scholarship players nearly all transferred before he came
        - nearly impossiible to recruit even decent players with scholarship competition from other schools
        Last edited by Columbuseer; 09-04-2022, 09:17 PM.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

          Regarding defense, at pulaski he generally outscored teams. Like crutchfield, he does not care how much opponent scores as long as he wins. Lol


          The athletic article was very revealing. Fairly safe to say wlu commitment is greater. At Presbyterian,
          - zero scholarships, which he knew.
          - charging football players full tuition for summer school, so no workouts before start of school. Tuition is 40k
          - they did not allow players to register early for classes. Many players had class schedule conflicts with practice.
          - existing grandfathered scholarship players nearly all transferred before he came
          - nearly impossiible to recruit even decent players with scholarship competition from other schools
          Did Kelley ever go through a recruting cycle with Presby? I think he came in after the 2021 cycle was complete then quit before the 2022 cycle had ended. Yes. zero schollys and lots of local recruting competition does make it difficult but it's not like he's the only HC to face challenges. Perhaps the "Kelley Style" only works when your athletes are the best on the field?? I'm sure pretty much any style looks pretty good when you have the better athletes.

          An alternate view on why Kelley quit less than a year into his Presby tenure.
          1. He came in and realized it was going to take a lot of hard work to make Presby a D1 FCS powerhouse with no guarantee of success.
          2. He was going to have to put in long hours recruting with no guarantee of success.
          3. During the multiple years it would take to make Presby successful, his "brand" was going to take a big hit and that hit would effect his ability to earn $'s.

          While Crutch certainly did outscore teams, I'd hardly say his style doesn't care about defense. Quite the contrary. We tend to think of Crutch and his style as 100% offense but that's not true. Crutch's style is just as much about constant defensive pressure and the turnovers and fatigue that creates late in games when the game is on the line as it is about jacking 3's in the offensive end.

          While not a direct comparison, I'd say that the Kelley Style is more Run-and-Gun were defense is just the annoying time that you don't have the ball...get it over as quickly as possible so that you can "work your offensive magic."

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

            Did Kelley ever go through a recruting cycle with Presby? I think he came in after the 2021 cycle was complete then quit before the 2022 cycle had ended. Yes. zero schollys and lots of local recruting competition does make it difficult but it's not like he's the only HC to face challenges. Perhaps the "Kelley Style" only works when your athletes are the best on the field?? I'm sure pretty much any style looks pretty good when you have the better athletes.

            An alternate view on why Kelley quit less than a year into his Presby tenure.
            1. He came in and realized it was going to take a lot of hard work to make Presby a D1 FCS powerhouse with no guarantee of success.
            2. He was going to have to put in long hours recruting with no guarantee of success.
            3. During the multiple years it would take to make Presby successful, his "brand" was going to take a big hit and that hit would effect his ability to earn $'s.

            While Crutch certainly did outscore teams, I'd hardly say his style doesn't care about defense. Quite the contrary. We tend to think of Crutch and his style as 100% offense but that's not true. Crutch's style is just as much about constant defensive pressure and the turnovers and fatigue that creates late in games when the game is on the line as it is about jacking 3's in the offensive end.

            While not a direct comparison, I'd say that the Kelley Style is more Run-and-Gun were defense is just the annoying time that you don't have the ball...get it over as quickly as possible so that you can "work your offensive magic."
            I agree with you about defense. Crutch just realizes that more possessions also means more points for opponent. Many folks think points allowed per game is a measure of good defense when it is really points per possession by the opponent.

            It might be useful for you to watch some pulaski academy games. With your expert eye for talent, It may cause you to question some of your assumptions about him having the best athletes. Number of college scholarship offers are quite few. They have a d1 player every 4 or 5 years. But the players are very smart. pulaski vs Robinson game two weeks ago might be useful.

            After he left, pulaski won state title. Last Friday they defeated one of the best teams in Mississippi. So his brand is still doing well. But they have moved up to 6a where players are huge and very talented. By enrollment they should be 3a.

            Anyhow, it is just a pipe dream that wlu would consider kelley in any capacity.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

              I agree with you about defense. Crutch just realizes that more possessions also means more points for opponent. Many folks think points allowed per game is a measure of good defense when it is really points per possession by the opponent.

              It might be useful for you to watch some pulaski academy games. With your expert eye for talent, It may cause you to question some of your assumptions about him having the best athletes. Number of college scholarship offers are quite few. They have a d1 player every 4 or 5 years. But the players are very smart. pulaski vs Robinson game two weeks ago might be useful.

              After he left, pulaski won state title. Last Friday they defeated one of the best teams in Mississippi. So his brand is still doing well. But they have moved up to 6a where players are huge and very talented. By enrollment they should be 3a.

              Anyhow, it is just a pipe dream that wlu would consider kelley in any capacity.
              I have watched Pulaski games. Their offense is very novel. I can imagine it is difficult to prepare for...particularly if you play them once a year.

              Contrary to some, I have never claimed to have an "expert eye for talent." I generally leave player evaluations and predictions of future greatness to others on this board ;-).

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                I have watched Pulaski games. Their offense is very novel. I can imagine it is difficult to prepare for...particularly if you play them once a year.

                Contrary to some, I have never claimed to have an "expert eye for talent." I generally leave player evaluations and predictions of future greatness to others on this board ;-).
                My mistake, I thought you said you ran a scouting service for football.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Columbuseer View Post

                  My mistake, I thought you said you ran a scouting service for football.
                  I did...but I wouldn't be so bold as to say I had an expert eye. My particular area of expertise was ID'ing the DII caliber players from the D3.
                  Last edited by boatcapt; 09-05-2022, 08:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Layton View Post
                    Wish this was a D1 school where fans can have a bigger influence. Just disgusting what they’ve done to our program
                    LOL the deep pocket alumni run those even more.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                      LOL the deep pocket alumni run those even more.
                      Nah without fans there’s no program

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Layton View Post

                        Nah without fans there’s no program
                        You'd be surprised. Look into attendance at the lowest level D1 football and basketball schools. Its not any different from what you have now. The NCAA money distributions for March Madness TV rights keeps a lot of BS athletic programs afloat.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          It's a matter of scale. At a major D1 college, Gary West's donations wouldn't even warrant his name on the visitors locker room...In the softball complex!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Was Diven benched or injured? Looks like the backup provided a spark

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Layton View Post
                              Was Diven benched or injured? Looks like the backup provided a spark
                              Had to be helped off the field following his last fumble. Appeared to be a lower body injury.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Is WLU a contender or pretender? Next week will be a severe test @ NDC. Just supposing they are contenders, this game would give the Toppers a chance to get at game up on NDC and UC and keep pace with Frostburg (Assuming they beat WVS Saturday).

                                Comment

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