Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

[Bart]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

People outside of the Philly area probably aren't familiar with The Flamin ' Caucasians

I never heard of the BlacKkKlansman either, but it sounds like an interesting Spike Lee movie.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

FSU has a longstanding relationship with the Seminole tribe, so I think that one is safe.

Illini is a funny one. I can see the "Fighting" part being dropped, but Illini and Illinois are both derivatives of the same word. Its kind of like Philadelphia Phillies. So unless you are going to rename the whole state, it seems pointless to change that one.

I agree that tasteful and respectful can be done. The challenge is that, as we learned with University of North Dakota, tribal leadership changes and so could opinions. The only university who can argue the heritage case is UNC Pembroke. Unfortunately most schools are the Braves, Warriors, Indians, etc. with at best a cartoon of a man in a feathered headdress.

[IUPNation]

Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

This is why IUP should have stood its ground against the NCAA blackmail.



As long as the logos and use of imagery is not done in a racist way it is no different than Fighting Irish.

Reddkins - bad
Indians - generic.

Hail to the Indians!!! Go IUP!!

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

Keeping to the said school in question ... I'm just guessing so you stat freaks can actually do the research ... but I'm assuming there are numerous WPIAL schools with such a name (of Indian reference).

Penn Hills Indians, etc.

Do we perhaps get to the point of the WPIAL making a policy regarding it?

[IUP CRIMSON HAWKS]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

Let us not forget the IUP student body voted to adapt the nickname of "Fighting Squirrels" not all that long ago. True story. I had a vote.


Luckily, it was ultimately rejected. Who were we to cast squirrels as fighters? Very cruel toward their breed.


How about the Cleveland Indians, Washington Redskins, Florida State Seminoles, San Diego State Azteks, Kansas City Chiefs, etc.

What about the Ole Miss Rebels? Tell me that doesn't have some undertones.


This is all starting to remind me of the movie PCU. Personally, I see the names as a way of honoring and remembering the Indian cultures. I think the 'white man' at least owes them that much.


Change the IHS nickname to Little Crimson Hawks. Get rid of their version of Cherokee. Fifth Street Stadium can rock out to Ghostbusters, too.

Yes! This!

The U.S. Army did not dub their fearsome attack helicopter the Apache that because they wanted to degrade a race or a tribe. They named it that to signify its fierceness. It was a measure of respect.

-

[boatcapt]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

1. Edinboro (town and university) were founded by Scots.

2. All depictions are historically accurate and tasteful albeit inconsistent by era.

3. Edinboro honors that Scottish heritage by sponsoring a bagpipe band, annual Highland Games, a minor in bagpipes, trips to Scotland, and the fight song being the unofficial national anthem.

If you ask a Scot they'll object to the improper pronunciation of Edinboro.

But if a certain segment of the stereotyped population finds the name offensive, then it's offensive and should be changed. At least that's what seems to be happening across the spectrum of society. Doesnt matter why the name was adopted or any positive meaning that was origionally attached back in the day. If someone is offended now, it should be changed.

[ctrabs74]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

This has been on again off again for at least 10 years, and the imagery used has been cleaned up several times. There are alot of people in town that really don't want it to change - there are dueling petitions with keep the name winning 3 to one right now. The funny thing is, in the end it really doesn't matter so much what a HS sports teams nickname is but people will fight in the nastiest ways over it. http://wdadradio.com/duelling-petiti...ihs-team-name/ -- of course with the washington Redskins keeping their name, people wonder why only rich guys get to use that nickname.

I've noticed a couple of schools in Ohio (I forget which one, but it's in the Ohio Valley area near Steubenville and compete in the Ohio Valley Athletic Conference with West Virginia schools) and at least one in Pennsylvania (Langhorne Neshaminy) use the same nickname as the Washington [Redacteds]. Short of the PIAA actually putting pressure on schools to change their names, it may be a while before all of the state's high schools get the memo.

It's also worth noting that East Stroudsburg (Warriors) and Shippensburg (Red Raiders) also kept their nicknames but eliminated any remote references to Native American connotations (East Stroud at least went with more of a Roman gladiator theme with their recent logo reboot, which was long overdue; Ship basically uses their university's logo and their mascot would seem to imply a "Raider" as a pirate as opposed to a Native American).

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

But if a certain segment of the stereotyped population finds the name offensive, then it's offensive and should be changed. At least that's what seems to be happening across the spectrum of society. Doesnt matter why the name was adopted or any positive meaning that was origionally attached back in the day. If someone is offended now, it should be changed.

But that's the difference. They're not stereotyping.

[boatcapt]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

But that's the difference. They're not stereotyping.

In todays culture of political correctness and offense at every real or perceived slight, it really doesn't matter what the intent was back in the day. What matters is the offense any current group or individual feels. If anyone feels offended by it, then it should be changed...at least that seems to be the current system we live in.

Stereotype of Scottish people is that they are mean spirited drunks ("Fighting Scots")...Stereotype of Irish people is that they are drunks prone to fighting ("Fighting Irish")...Stereotype of Indians is that they are drunken savages who are prone to fight ("Fighting Illini"). If ANY Scot or Irish or Indian feels offended, then society as a whole should demand these offensive names be changed.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

This is going to get deep.

[boatcapt]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

This is going to get deep.

It's the hypocrisy that some people approach this subject with that is really bothersome. I've seen the staunchest advocates for forcing the Washington Redskins to change their name and imagery go to equally long length to explain why Florida State's Seminole and the fans "Tomahawk Chop" is absolutely NOT offensive. Of course, this person happened to be a graduate of Florida State! Similarly I've heard Notre Dame alumni argue long and hard for the removal of "imagery and nicknames that denigrate people based on their race or heritage weather they were intended to do so or not" then turn on a dime and say that Notre Dame's Fighting Irish nickname and imagery is actually a compliment and not a negative stereotype at all.

Seems like everyone is quick to want to force others to change but they aren't willing to change themselves. But I guess that is just America now days.

[jrshooter]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

Any outrage I had over this issue was pretty well doused the first time I heard a native American organization say they really didn't care.

[Fightingscot82]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

In todays culture of political correctness and offense at every real or perceived slight, it really doesn't matter what the intent was back in the day. What matters is the offense any current group or individual feels. If anyone feels offended by it, then it should be changed...at least that seems to be the current system we live in.

Stereotype of Scottish people is that they are mean spirited drunks ("Fighting Scots")...Stereotype of Irish people is that they are drunks prone to fighting ("Fighting Irish")...Stereotype of Indians is that they are drunken savages who are prone to fight ("Fighting Illini"). If ANY Scot or Irish or Indian feels offended, then society as a whole should demand these offensive names be changed.

What if they're fighting for Scottish independence? Fighting the thugs from the Gannon football team?

[EyeoftheHawk]

Any outrage I had over this issue was pretty well doused the first time I heard a native American organization say they really didn't care.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Re: Indiana High School - Nickname Debate (Former IUP Mascot)

Are these people fighting the cause really defending beliefs or are they babbling for the sake of babbling?

Imagine social media during the Vietnam War. How many people yap about the Civil War that truly have no idea what it was really about? Popular belief was it was to free the slaves. Best think again, ... jus' saying.

Were Indians treated badly on the grounds of this current country? The textbooks tell one version. Massacre may be another term left out.

I haven't followed this IHS thing closely. Are there actual members of any Tribe fighting for the cause or is it just (a few of) the locals in an uprise?