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  • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

    Is that speculation or do you know it was a result of adding the private schools?
    If I look, I might be able to find it from the stories I wrote in 2008. But the timing wasn't coincidental that Gannon and Mercyhurst joined the league the same time it dropped the 25 scholarship limit.

    http://www.indianagazette.com
    www.twitter.com/MattBurglund

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    • Originally posted by Matt Burglund View Post

      If I look, I might be able to find it from the stories I wrote in 2008. But the timing wasn't coincidental that Gannon and Mercyhurst joined the league the same time it dropped the 25 scholarship limit.
      It's amazing how much time this topic gets when just about nobody in the league is anywhere near 25 football scholarships -- let alone 36. And, yes, I mean 'football equivalencies' ... not all the academic money, etc.

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      • Originally posted by Matt Burglund View Post

        If I look, I might be able to find it from the stories I wrote in 2008. But the timing wasn't coincidental that Gannon and Mercyhurst joined the league the same time it dropped the 25 scholarship limit.
        Here is one from the Trib. It does look like a cause and effect relationship there.

        https://archive.triblive.com/news/ps...high-priority/

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        • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

          Is this the poor little West Chester argument again? Until you see ALL the funds these teams are putting in to football then the scholarship posted number is irrelevant. It tells a portion of the story.
          Which applies to ALL schools as well.

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          • Originally posted by Matt Burglund View Post

            Eh, not really. It wasn't long before Gannon and Mercyhurst joined the league that the PSAC was teaming up with the RMAC to propose legislation that all D2 schools get capped at 25. It obviously failed.
            From the blueprint for a new level of competitive football in the NCAA divisional membership structure in 2006:
            At the 2005 NCAA Convention, the Pennsylvania State and Rocky Mountain Athletic Conferences sponsored legislation to reduce the number of equivalencies from 36 to 24, the approximate scholarship average for Division II football programs.
            The remainder of the blueprint was developing two different championships within D2, one for schools offering up to 18 or 20 (the limit hadn't been finalized) and one for up to 36. Really no different than D1 is today with FCS and FBS.

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            • Originally posted by Horror Child View Post

              From the blueprint for a new level of competitive football in the NCAA divisional membership structure in 2006:


              The remainder of the blueprint was developing two different championships within D2, one for schools offering up to 18 or 20 (the limit hadn't been finalized) and one for up to 36. Really no different than D1 is today with FCS and FBS.
              I love the second paragraph. I've thought this for years. D2 football is more freaked up than Major League Baseball. Basketball is the same way.

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              • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                Is this the poor little West Chester argument again? Until you see ALL the funds these teams are putting in to football then the scholarship posted number is irrelevant. It tells a portion of the story.

                SRU's starting RB this year (SH transfer) was put on a full academic ride. That stuff doesn't show up in this yearly discussion. It's not a loophole as it's legal. Find really good, smart players and you can get real creative with how much they get.
                Here's working the system... A guy I went to high school with was brilliant. Incredibly smart. Also was a really good swimmer. He had a number of schools recruiting him across all levels of college athletics. He really wanted to go to St. Vincent for a specific academic program. He had no interest in swimming, but they were recruiting him. Obviously D3 schools can't offer athletic scholarships. The deal the coach worked out for him was that he managed to get him on a full academic scholarship - almost everything paid for - if he came to St. Vincent to swim. So he said yes.

                After the first semester, this kid quit the swim team (he never wanted to swim in the first place). But neither St. Vincent nor the swim coach could do anything with the academic scholarship. The fine print said all he had to do was maintain a 3.5 every semester and he would go to school for free. He graduated with a 4.0.

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                • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post


                  Hasn't the long excuse out of Erie been that they have to recruit to higher academic standards than us lowly 'state schools' ? (true or not ...)


                  Mercyhurst may be the case, too, where being around .500 seems fine and dandy. They put a lot of emphasis on other wrestling, hockey and men's basketball.
                  The question is not so much whether they are better academically, but whether their athletes are recruited to the same standards as non-athletes. At the Division I level, some of coach K's basketball players wouldn't have a chance in hell of getting into Duke if they were non-athletes. From what I've heard, Stanford and Northwestern maintain the highest recruiting standard (as a Northwestern grad alum, I hear that our recruiting pool is about 25 percent of Ohio State or Penn State in a given year), but even those two lower standards somewhat for athletes.

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                  • Originally posted by IUP24 View Post

                    Here's working the system... A guy I went to high school with was brilliant. Incredibly smart. Also was a really good swimmer. He had a number of schools recruiting him across all levels of college athletics. He really wanted to go to St. Vincent for a specific academic program. He had no interest in swimming, but they were recruiting him. Obviously D3 schools can't offer athletic scholarships. The deal the coach worked out for him was that he managed to get him on a full academic scholarship - almost everything paid for - if he came to St. Vincent to swim. So he said yes.

                    After the first semester, this kid quit the swim team (he never wanted to swim in the first place). But neither St. Vincent nor the swim coach could do anything with the academic scholarship. The fine print said all he had to do was maintain a 3.5 every semester and he would go to school for free. He graduated with a 4.0.
                    A creative Division 3 coach can usually find "jobs" for players to do around campus. That has been going on at small colleges since the Dark Ages.

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                    • Originally posted by Horror Child View Post
                      The remainder of the blueprint was developing two different championships within D2, one for schools offering up to 18 or 20 (the limit hadn't been finalized) and one for up to 36. Really no different than D1 is today with FCS and FBS.
                      Here's the text from a story I wrote in May of 2006:

                      Again, remember this is from 2006.









                      Again, 2006.
                      http://www.indianagazette.com
                      www.twitter.com/MattBurglund

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                      • ESU's class...

                        https://esuwarriors.com/news/2020/2/...of-intent.aspx

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                        • Originally posted by Matt Burglund View Post

                          Here's the text from a story I wrote in May of 2006:

                          Again, remember this is from 2006.









                          Again, 2006.
                          That's an excellent article with the perspectives from the key people in the PSAC at the time. We talk about the football scholarships offered by each school but this raises the question in my mind of which, if any, PSAC schools actually offer the league maximum 70 athletic scholarships across all sports. Does IUP? Does anybody? If a school is at that limit then that is a constraint on the number of football scholarships that can be offered.

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                          • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
                            We talk about the football scholarships offered by each school but this raises the question in my mind of which, if any, PSAC schools actually offer the league maximum 70 athletic scholarships across all sports. Does IUP? Does anybody? If a school is at that limit then that is a constraint on the number of football scholarships that can be offered.
                            That rule was lifted when the 25 scholarship rule was eliminated in 2008.

                            According to the most recent numbers I have (2018-19), only the three privates offered more than 70 total scholarships: Mercyhurst (114.42), Gannon (91.28) and Seton Hill (82.69). Now, those numbers only include PSAC-sanctioned sports, so they're higher if you include things like hockey, wrestling and water polo.
                            http://www.indianagazette.com
                            www.twitter.com/MattBurglund

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                            • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                              That's an excellent article with the perspectives from the key people in the PSAC at the time. We talk about the football scholarships offered by each school but this raises the question in my mind of which, if any, PSAC schools actually offer the league maximum 70 athletic scholarships across all sports. Does IUP? Does anybody? If a school is at that limit then that is a constraint on the number of football scholarships that can be offered.
                              I always wondered about the significance of that number. Was it the next highest landmark above what IUP had at the time?

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                              • Originally posted by Matt Burglund View Post

                                Here's the text from a story I wrote in May of 2006:

                                Again, remember this is from 2006.






                                Again, 2006.
                                Two observations. First, now there is no choice, no need to "decide" as everyone is competing, or attempting to, with programs with as many as 36. Secondly, a dozen years since the 25 football scholarship limit has been lifted and the four programs in the PSAC with 25 or more all came from outside the PSAC: Mercyhurst, Shepherd, Gannon and Seton Hill.

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