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Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post
The basis for the predictions is the rate at which colleges have been closing in recent years. Colleges have always closed, but various factors have increased that rate over the recent years. The pandemic only serves as a catalyst to speed up the process.
The cost has exploded exponentially since the 1970's, and with wages stagnating - a college degree has effectively nullified whatever ROI it once had in most cases. Fewer students are going to college or universities, so there's less of a pool to draw from. Public funding has decreased in many cases as well. Grade inflation hasn't helped either. Most private liberal arts colleges charge really high fees for the same instruction that can be had elsewhere, which is what is doing them in.
I've always maintained it will hit New England the hardest. It will start with the small private schools and work it's way into the small public schools, then it will slowly spread across the United States. With the recent news out of Vermont, it looks like my prediction may be accurate - albeit it's just a guess.
The pandemic will hurt those who depend so heavily on endowment or tuition to fund general expenses - but it will most likely hurt those who were already at risk for the same reasons. Right now there's a lot of uncertainty in the college market but no alarms. Deposits are down everywhere but a lot of that can also be students waiting to see how they'll be attending at their top choices. No reason to pay out of state tuition when you'll be attending online from home. Admissions deposits are also direct billed expenses - they aren't covered by student loans - so its possible that the lack of having an extra $500 laying around is keeping some students from pulling the trigger. There's no evidence right now to support that students are choosing other options other than freshman and transfer deposits lagging.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Not true whatsoever. The ROI isn't automatic. The credential is just a piece of paper. College graduates on average earn over a million more over their lifetime. That's a million more plus access to greater health insurance and greater retirement benefits. The average student loan debt is $29,200 - and that includes people who borrowed $250k for law school or med school. That's a possible extra million in lifetime earnings for a similar amount to what Americans spend on a wedding. The ROI on a college degree isn't guaranteed just like the cost of a wedding doesn't guarantee a successful marriage.
The pandemic will hurt those who depend so heavily on endowment or tuition to fund general expenses - but it will most likely hurt those who were already at risk for the same reasons. Right now there's a lot of uncertainty in the college market but no alarms. Deposits are down everywhere but a lot of that can also be students waiting to see how they'll be attending at their top choices. No reason to pay out of state tuition when you'll be attending online from home. Admissions deposits are also direct billed expenses - they aren't covered by student loans - so its possible that the lack of having an extra $500 laying around is keeping some students from pulling the trigger. There's no evidence right now to support that students are choosing other options other than freshman and transfer deposits lagging.
$32,000 may be the average student loan debt, but the bulk of students are between $25,000 and $50,000 on the curve - that's another thing to consider.
As for your second point - the landscape of higher ed in response to the pandemic isn't exactly a good incubator for surveying upperclassmen on their plans, so we can only speculate. By all means students should pay full price for Zoom courses - McDonald's needs workers around here pretty bad these days.
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Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post
In response to the bolded - yes, you are right, ROI is not automatic. However, those statistics are embarrassingly faulty. First - they lump Gender Studies majors in with the Engineers. No, Gender Studies majors are not financially better off with a degree than without it. They're being carried by the strong majors at the strong schools. Secondly, those statistics assume correlation equals causation. Typically, people who stick out a college degree have a strong work ethic. It's better to assume that they would be successful regardless of the piece of paper than to assume they are successful because of it. Lastly, is that extra "million dollars" worth putting life off for 6 years to get a Bachelor's? One thing they taught me in business school is money today is worth more than money tomorrow.
$32,000 may be the average student loan debt, but the bulk of students are between $25,000 and $50,000 on the curve - that's another thing to consider.
As for your second point - the landscape of higher ed in response to the pandemic isn't exactly a good incubator for surveying upperclassmen on their plans, so we can only speculate. By all means students should pay full price for Zoom courses - McDonald's needs workers around here pretty bad these days.
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So ... what happens when some teams in SR1 can play and others cannot. West Chester is a prime example of an area highly unlikely to be able to play by August.
Many D1's initially said we all play or nobody plays. That stance has dramatically shifted gears now. Schools like Rutgers and Syracuse ... those in heavily restricted states ... probably no chance.
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Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post
I'm sure you won't find Pine Manor alumni feeling this way, but that school at least landed a deal and will be of some educational use. That's not too common with colleges going under.
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Originally posted by jrshooter View Post
Back to this for a moment.
I'm sure you won't find Pine Manor alumni feeling this way, but that school at least landed a deal and will be of some educational use. That's not too common with colleges going under.
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Originally posted by jrshooter View Post
Back to this for a moment.
I'm sure you won't find Pine Manor alumni feeling this way, but that school at least landed a deal and will be of some educational use. That's not too common with colleges going under.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
I'm curious. Can you provide support for that assertion?
https://www.jamesgmartin.center/2014...-theatre-arts/
Gender Studies was probably a bad example as a lot of them pursue careers in academia from what I've been told, so the numbers are probably skewed.
EDIT: Upon further review, that source does seem to be pretty biased towards the right, but I'll leave it up for now - maybe it sparks some discussion.
Last edited by SW_Mustang; 05-15-2020, 07:23 AM.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
You have a business degree. Business degrees aren't that old. Before business degrees were a thing people studied humanities programs...like gender studies.
I studied Marketing because I thought it would make me more marketable. The jury is still out on if it benefitted me or not, but I chose to do it instead of dropping out to pursue a trade because I was able to finish it so cheaply. Sometimes I regret not becoming a welder, but it is what it is.
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Originally posted by SW_Mustang View Post
I will try to find you the source where I got that information. It's a bit dated, but here's this - although I'm not sure how biased it is or not (and admittedly, it is quite old):
https://www.jamesgmartin.center/2014...-theatre-arts/
Gender Studies was probably a bad example as a lot of them pursue careers in academia from what I've been told, so the numbers are probably skewed.
EDIT: Upon further review, that source does seem to be pretty biased towards the right, but I'll leave it up for now - maybe it sparks some discussion.
The study you cite in the article is only from North Carolina and measuring people's finances 5 years out of school wouldn't take into consideration professional or grad school. Plus, these people contribute more to their communities throughout their lives. I am sure of that.
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Don't recall where I saw this but on a video PSAC comiss Steve Murray said If the Eastern part of PA was on sports lockdown, only the Western part of the PSAC would play football. Could be an interesting season.
Ah ha, just found it. Interview of PSAC's Steve Murray on WICU TV-12 in Erie
https://www.erienewsnow.com/clip/150...-sports-return
Last edited by Sec10-A-14; 05-15-2020, 12:24 PM.
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