Promising? Maybe?

[IUP24]

It is amazing in today's age they can still get away with that ladder. Consider how many bad weather games they've had over the years ... climbing a wet or icy ladder. Lawsuit waiting to happen. Of course ... it hasn't happened yet. Not to mention its beyond a major violation of modern code. That whole side (home side) is a real mess -- bleachers, restrooms, ... total rebuild needed.

Oddly the project I keep hearing about is a tunnel from the lockerroom in to the stadium (not the pressbox).

Band-aids, baby. Band-aids.

[SW_Mustang]

I understand certain majors don't reap the same benefits as others. Everybody does. Yes, I think Gender Studies is probably a bad example. I couldn't find documentation on it during a 5 minute google search but from my experience, those programs started at elite women's schools and other elite private schools. I've known women who went to Bryn Mawr and the other 7 sisters schools, people who go to places like Oberlin, for example where they can go out and get good jobs just due to the name of the school (and their academic preparation). Many of these people can write, present, research, etc. and they have connections so that stuff muddies the waters. Plus, for example, I would bet there is a higher percentage of gender studies majors who go on to law school and can actually gain entry to a variety of professional schools. Often, they take minors and other courses in social sciences and other disciplines. I think when people talk about "gender studies" it's used more as an example and we know what they mean.

The study you cite in the article is only from North Carolina and measuring people's finances 5 years out of school wouldn't take into consideration professional or grad school. Plus, these people contribute more to their communities throughout their lives. I am sure of that.

I forgot what thread I posted this in, didn't mean to leave you hanging.

This discussion, from what I've read, is always cloudy. There are far too many variables and too many biased individuals on both sides of the table to make accurate assessments. It's my belief that "success," whatever that is, is best achieved through hard work. For some - that may be a billion dollars, for others it may just be self-sufficiency. Add in factors like regional COL, and it gets to be very hard to determine the true monetary value of having a college degree.

I think your point about the name of the school is very true. Someone with a fluff degree from Harvard might have a better chance than someone with a STEM degree from Backwater State. It's an unfortunate reality.

This is just my opinion - but if the costs of college are skyrocketing while wages stagnate, so the ROI of a degree is slowly being chipped away at. Given this, the lines on the graph will eventually intersect, and a college degree will no longer have any real value compared to not having one. It's a question I've asked people - at what point does it no longer become "worth it?" $1,000,000 in loans? $500K? Yes, those are outrageous numbers - but it's a proof of concept. Some people believe we're already there and have been for 20 years, some people believe the cost will never get too high. I happen to think we're on the fast track to finding that point. Also encouraging everyone to go to college hasn't helped either, there's far too much competition in the labor market, IMO. Again, that's all just my opinion and I don't have anything to back it up with.

There's this often-cited article from the Brookings Institute about the best path for social mobility, which makes me question the value of college as well.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/t...-middle-class/

In any case, I'm not "anti-college." I'm critical of it because I want to make it better, more efficient, and I want it to produce better results. Based on my undergraduate experience, we've got a lot of work to do.

[Fightingscot82]

I forgot what thread I posted this in, didn't mean to leave you hanging.

This discussion, from what I've read, is always cloudy. There are far too many variables and too many biased individuals on both sides of the table to make accurate assessments. It's my belief that "success," whatever that is, is best achieved through hard work. For some - that may be a billion dollars, for others it may just be self-sufficiency. Add in factors like regional COL, and it gets to be very hard to determine the true monetary value of having a college degree.

I think your point about the name of the school is very true. Someone with a fluff degree from Harvard might have a better chance than someone with a STEM degree from Backwater State. It's an unfortunate reality.

This is just my opinion - but if the costs of college are skyrocketing while wages stagnate, so the ROI of a degree is slowly being chipped away at. Given this, the lines on the graph will eventually intersect, and a college degree will no longer have any real value compared to not having one. It's a question I've asked people - at what point does it no longer become "worth it?" $1,000,000 in loans? $500K? Yes, those are outrageous numbers - but it's a proof of concept. Some people believe we're already there and have been for 20 years, some people believe the cost will never get too high. I happen to think we're on the fast track to finding that point. Also encouraging everyone to go to college hasn't helped either, there's far too much competition in the labor market, IMO. Again, that's all just my opinion and I don't have anything to back it up with.

There's this often-cited article from the Brookings Institute about the best path for social mobility, which makes me question the value of college as well.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/t...-middle-class/

In any case, I'm not "anti-college." I'm critical of it because I want to make it better, more efficient, and I want it to produce better results. Based on my undergraduate experience, we've got a lot of work to do.

You mentioned social mobility. This study is a few years old but shows that our PASSHE schools outperform many peers on social mobility.


https://www.keystoneresearch.org/pub...class-colleges

The least likely career paths for social mobility are service/retail, full time military, and low skilled trade.

[SW_Mustang]

You mentioned social mobility. This study is a few years old but shows that our PASSHE schools outperform many peers on social mobility.


https://www.keystoneresearch.org/pub...class-colleges

The least likely career paths for social mobility are service/retail, full time military, and low skilled trade.

Interesting. I wonder what the statistics are for Minnesota State.

Anyway, it's good to see that happening somewhere.

[cwfenn]

It may not mean anything, but I teach for a college in Berks County and we got the order today to have fully remote instruction this coming Fall. No idea if it will impact what KU does.

[ctrabs74]

As I recall the FORT COURAGE guard tower met a sad ending.

Yeah... too bad the Miller Stadium press box couldn't have met a similar sad ending, oh, 15-20 years ago.