OT: D1

[IUPbigINDIANS]

100%, I think he'd be a great listen. Add him to the Gameday set with Saban.

It caught me off guard yesterday when FS82 said he's now 58 years old.

I can't believe the famous "I"m a man ... I'm 40" rant was that long ago. Time sure does fly.

[IUP24]

It caught me off guard yesterday when FS82 said he's now 58 years old.

I can't believe the famous "I"m a man ... I'm 40" rant was that long ago. Time sure does fly.

Gundy had a great run of success when it was a different world. And I'm not saying that related to revenue sharing or not adapting, or any of that stuff. His tenure was very successful and should be looked upon fondly.

Guys like Mike Gundy have flaws from a coaching perspective. Elite coaches at the college level are few and far between. Oklahoma State, in reality, is just a program that was built on the donations of a single oil tycoon who has since passed away - and as such, those donations have gone away. They were really nothing beforehand. OK State isn't an elite job. It's a P4 job (and will get a bunch of candidates because of that), but it's not a "great" job in P4 football all things considered.

My point in saying that is that for the majority of the programs who are in the Power 4 conferences, Gundy is exactly what you want in a head coach. He wanted to be there and never intended on using OK State to springboard to something bigger and better. There's a bunch of those guys you see settling into jobs like that around the P4 ranks. And there's a ton to be said for that...

People hate Pat Narduzzi (and I bet he retires in a year), but he's the same. He's got a ton of flaws, but wants to be Pitt's head coach. Dave Doeren at NC State isn't perfect and has had opportunities to leave, but hasn't. Dave Clawson was that for Wake Forest prior to retiring. We're about to find out how much Shane Beamer loves South Carolina, but that isn't an "elite job" despite being in the SEC. But he has stated that he loves USC and wants to be there. Kyle Whittingham has had multiple opportunities to leave Utah, but likes what he has going and stuck around. Mark Stoops has been at Kentucky forever. Dabo - for his perceived flaws - was years ago considered for jobs at places which outside perspectives view as bigger than Clemson. He loved Clemson.

It's an odd world of college athletics nowadays. It's unique that while player movement is unprecedented, the craziness of the coaching carousel has seemed to really cool off. These guys don't hop around like they once did. I think people realize that game isn't worth playing, and they find a landing spot they like and give it their best effort to win there and build something, rather than using it as a springboard. There's a ton of coaches out there now (perhaps more than ever in my lifetime) that just really like coaching where they are coaching. None of the names I mentioned are perfect, but from a program perspective, there's a ton to be said for that.

[Fightingscot82]

The frustrating thing is that these boosters may have millions and millions of dollars to light on fire to force a coaching change, but Oklahoma State isn't going to hire the top free agent coach. Its Oklahoma State in Stillwater, Oklahoma. He was an OKState alum. He was proven to be successful. You can't be on top every freaking year. They'd rather win it all amidst chaos for everyone but themselves than allow the school to build a program and keep a coach long term to have continuity. But sure, spend $15 million to get a coach who guarantees nothing.

[IUP24]

The frustrating thing is that these boosters may have millions and millions of dollars to light on fire to force a coaching change, but Oklahoma State isn't going to hire the top free agent coach. Its Oklahoma State in Stillwater, Oklahoma. He was an OKState alum. He was proven to be successful. You can't be on top every freaking year. They'd rather win it all amidst chaos for everyone but themselves than allow the school to build a program and keep a coach long term to have continuity. But sure, spend $15 million to get a coach who guarantees nothing.

They aren't going to hire the top free agent coach because they don't have the money to do so (after they lit 20 million on fire to make him go away). I know you know this, but there's this common belief that these schools and football programs are just printing money. They aren't. Consider that it's being reported that everybody's darling in the ACC (Virginia Tech) has to pump an additional estimated 50-70 million into their athletic department just to be spending in the TOP HALF of the ACC in athletics spending. THE TOP HALF!!! Everybody believes VT is this football sleeping giant because Frank Beamer had a couple nice seasons and because they play Enter Sandman before football games. They are a school in the middle of coal mining towns that has no money!!!

People can talk about NIL, revenue sharing, the transfer portal, etc. The root cause of this all was the creation of the College Football Playoff, and then the subsequent expansion of the CFP (and it isn't stopping at 12 teams). We created a world where nothing else matters other than reaching the CFP due to the financial payout that existed by just getting into the field. And that payout is precisely why the SEC and B1G are attempting to manipulate the tournament into an invite club based on helmets and logos. That's the real issue.

OK State is like 90% of college football: Actually relevant once a decade... But the environment now is structured so that one trip to the CFP can provide so much money that it funds your entire athletic department, gives you your pot of revenue sharing money, etc. All of these schools are willing to pay so much money to make a coach go away because they see a couple isolated programs hit it big for 1-2 years because they managed to get lucky through the transfer portal on a year where they had a favorable schedule. They all believe that by getting rid of their current guy, the next guy will flush 50 bodies out and bring in 50 new ones via the portal, and he could be their Curt Cignetti (or whoever) to take them to the CFP out of nowhere. And when another 3 years goes by, they'll be ready to head to the next warm body to take over.

There are so few programs who can actually be in the picture every year. I think so many people overestimate that number. It's MAYBE 10-12 programs - MAYBE....

[Fightingscot82]

They aren't going to hire the top free agent coach because they don't have the money to do so (after they lit 20 million on fire to make him go away). I know you know this, but there's this common belief that these schools and football programs are just printing money. They aren't. Consider that it's being reported that everybody's darling in the ACC (Virginia Tech) has to pump an additional estimated 50-70 million into their athletic department just to be spending in the TOP HALF of the ACC in athletics spending. THE TOP HALF!!! Everybody believes VT is this football sleeping giant because Frank Beamer had a couple nice seasons and because they play Enter Sandman before football games. They are a school in the middle of coal mining towns that has no money!!!

People can talk about NIL, revenue sharing, the transfer portal, etc. The root cause of this all was the creation of the College Football Playoff, and then the subsequent expansion of the CFP (and it isn't stopping at 12 teams). We created a world where nothing else matters other than reaching the CFP due to the financial payout that existed by just getting into the field. And that payout is precisely why the SEC and B1G are attempting to manipulate the tournament into an invite club based on helmets and logos. That's the real issue.

OK State is like 90% of college football: Actually relevant once a decade... But the environment now is structured so that one trip to the CFP can provide so much money that it funds your entire athletic department, gives you your pot of revenue sharing money, etc. All of these schools are willing to pay so much money to make a coach go away because they see a couple isolated programs hit it big for 1-2 years because they managed to get lucky through the transfer portal on a year where they had a favorable schedule. They all believe that by getting rid of their current guy, the next guy will flush 50 bodies out and bring in 50 new ones via the portal, and he could be their Curt Cignetti (or whoever) to take them to the CFP out of nowhere. And when another 3 years goes by, they'll be ready to head to the next warm body to take over.

There are so few programs who can actually be in the picture every year. I think so many people overestimate that number. It's MAYBE 10-12 programs - MAYBE....

I'd argue that the ESPN purchase and subsequent proliferation of bowl games got the ball rolling. And to a degree, the BCS (and expansion of March Madness) as moves to consolidate the money. But you're right - the myth that there is just a tower of cash for each program based on the assumptions that everyone spends like Ohio State, Texas A&M, and Auburn. Money was always there - we just let the inmates (P5 schools, conferences, and fans) run the asylum. This opened the door for coaches and their agents to align with boosters and consolidate football and basketball money into those programs and no longer use football & basketball revenue to fund the non-revenue sports. The NCAA also did away with the attendance requirement for FBS allowing so many low level programs (looking at you, Akron and Buffalo) to jack student fees to cover expenses. If broadcast, gameday, and booster/sponsor revenue don't meet a threshold, then you've gotta move down. That was supposed to be the point of the scholarship breakdowns.

I'd argue that the true culprit is generations of NCAA leadership abdicating national championships to the media, allowing someone like Kirk Herbstreit have say in who is a champion instead of following the same model used by every other level of every other sport (including football) where its win your conference and you're in a playoff. This would have preserved longstanding conference memberships and rivalries and put the emphasis on winning regular opponents instead of scheduling McNeese State on November 9 for some playoff and poll style points to salvage a season or earn that bonus.

[IUP24]

I'd argue that the ESPN purchase and subsequent proliferation of bowl games got the ball rolling. And to a degree, the BCS (and expansion of March Madness) as moves to consolidate the money. But you're right - the myth that there is just a tower of cash for each program based on the assumptions that everyone spends like Ohio State, Texas A&M, and Auburn. Money was always there - we just let the inmates (P5 schools, conferences, and fans) run the asylum. This opened the door for coaches and their agents to align with boosters and consolidate football and basketball money into those programs and no longer use football & basketball revenue to fund the non-revenue sports. The NCAA also did away with the attendance requirement for FBS allowing so many low level programs (looking at you, Akron and Buffalo) to jack student fees to cover expenses. If broadcast, gameday, and booster/sponsor revenue don't meet a threshold, then you've gotta move down. That was supposed to be the point of the scholarship breakdowns.

I'd argue that the true culprit is generations of NCAA leadership abdicating national championships to the media, allowing someone like Kirk Herbstreit have say in who is a champion instead of following the same model used by every other level of every other sport (including football) where its win your conference and you're in a playoff. This would have preserved longstanding conference memberships and rivalries and put the emphasis on winning regular opponents instead of scheduling McNeese State on November 9 for some playoff and poll style points to salvage a season or earn that bonus.

I agree with all of that. And this certainly gets us down a rabbit hole (one that I went down all of last football season with disagreement from almost everyone else here). But I truthfully don't care who people would prefer to see the Saturday before Christmas when they are sitting on their couch eating chips. It's not about fairness, equity in playoff representation, etc. Every decision is made based on the CFP at this juncture. Coaching decisions, financial dollars within the university, etc.

The fans are just as culpable because they watch and continue to justify what the figureheads of the NCAA, major conferences, and media conglomerates have forced down our throats. There was a stark difference between how we talked about 2007 Boise State and 2017 UCF (can't remember if it was 17 or 18 that they were unbeaten). But that is largely because of how the talking heads like Kirk Herbstreit talked about that UCF team.

The networks didn't want UCF in the CFP. So they told their rank and file to talk about them like crap, and the fans would ultimately turn on them to not want a Cinderella type to root for. We're told the CFP is all that matters. And despite expanded the field, we want to continue making the CFP nearly impossible to reach for about 80% of FBS programs. So yeah, schools will do whatever is necessary to find a way to maybe just one year get into that club to get the payout.

[IUPNation]

"Gundy will be owed $15 million by the university."

Don't they have all the T Boone Pickens money sitting around?

[Fightingscot82]

I agree with all of that. And this certainly gets us down a rabbit hole (one that I went down all of last football season with disagreement from almost everyone else here). But I truthfully don't care who people would prefer to see the Saturday before Christmas when they are sitting on their couch eating chips. It's not about fairness, equity in playoff representation, etc. Every decision is made based on the CFP at this juncture. Coaching decisions, financial dollars within the university, etc.

The fans are just as culpable because they watch and continue to justify what the figureheads of the NCAA, major conferences, and media conglomerates have forced down our throats. There was a stark difference between how we talked about 2007 Boise State and 2017 UCF (can't remember if it was 17 or 18 that they were unbeaten). But that is largely because of how the talking heads like Kirk Herbstreit talked about that UCF team.

The networks didn't want UCF in the CFP. So they told their rank and file to talk about them like crap, and the fans would ultimately turn on them to not want a Cinderella type to root for. We're told the CFP is all that matters. And despite expanded the field, we want to continue making the CFP nearly impossible to reach for about 80% of FBS programs. So yeah, schools will do whatever is necessary to find a way to maybe just one year get into that club to get the payout.

I think you're seeing it this year with so many of the perennial powers of the last decade struggling and the upstarts like UCF (again) and Indiana make the talking heads eat their own sh*t. Especially this past weekend with Indiana completely dismantling #9 Illinois - who is probably not the 9th best team but you know who put them there? The talking heads with poll votes.

[Fightingscot82]

Don't they have all the T Boone Pickens money sitting around?

Nah he's long dead.

[IUPNation]

Nah he's long dead.

Did the money die too?

[IUP24]

I think you're seeing it this year with so many of the perennial powers of the last decade struggling and the upstarts like UCF (again) and Indiana make the talking heads eat their own sh*t. Especially this past weekend with Indiana completely dismantling #9 Illinois - who is probably not the 9th best team but you know who put them there? The talking heads with poll votes.

The AP poll should not exist in my opinion. People want to cram down our throats how significantly better the SEC and B1G are compared to everyone else. If the voters who are told that by the media on television keep putting those teams in the Top 25, those teams will constantly get cheap and laughable “ranked wins” for when it comes to the CFP selection.

I feel like many are starting to wake up to this charade. But not enough are.

[Fightingscot82]

Did the money die too?

The majority of the money went to scholarships outside of football and most of the remaining money went toward their football training facility.

[IUPNation]

The AP poll should not exist in my opinion. People want to cram down our throats how significantly better the SEC and B1G are compared to everyone else. If the voters who are told that by the media on television keep putting those teams in the Top 25, those teams will constantly get cheap and laughable “ranked wins” for when it comes to the CFP selection.

I feel like many are starting to wake up to this charade. But not enough are.

Polls are useless. The playoff teams are chosen by winning conferences and possible runner ups getting a bid.

[IUP24]

Polls are useless. The playoff teams are chosen by winning conferences and possible runner ups getting a bid.

That’s what it should be or only be. That should be the only criteria. But the issue is that two conferences want you to feel bad for them because they poached other good teams from other conferences, and thus they believe they are deserving of more bids because they voluntarily made their conferences “more difficult.”

Im sorry, but some of the unbalanced scheduling in the B1G is absolutely laughable. Neither of those two leagues get an ounce of sympathy for me. Indiana’s schedule last year was horrifyingly bad. Penn State should fire James Franklin should they not go 12-0 next year - their schedule is horrendous. But those teams will get “ranked wins” along the way because enough people will say that 5-4 Wisconsin is better than a 7-2 Duke team. It’s maddening how bad the media has influenced what exists in major college football today.

While the at-large teams are chosen by a committee using their own CFP rankings system, the problem is that the public perception of teams are influenced heavily by the polls and media talking heads; and that ultimately plays a role in where they rank those teams within the CFP rankings (specifically in the first set of rankings). Illinois might suck, but people will say it was a huge B1G conference win for Indiana over a ranked team and they can use that data point for CFP selection. It’s a joke.

[Fightingscot82]

That’s what it should be or only be. That should be the only criteria. But the issue is that two conferences want you to feel bad for them because they poached other good teams from other conferences, and thus they believe they are deserving of more bids because they voluntarily made their conferences “more difficult.”

Im sorry, but some of the unbalanced scheduling in the B1G is absolutely laughable. Neither of those two leagues get an ounce of sympathy for me. Indiana’s schedule last year was horrifyingly bad. Penn State should fire James Franklin should they not go 12-0 next year - their schedule is horrendous. But those teams will get “ranked wins” along the way because enough people will say that 5-4 Wisconsin is better than a 7-2 Duke team. It’s maddening how bad the media has influenced what exists in major college football today.

While the at-large teams are chosen by a committee using their own CFP rankings system, the problem is that the public perception of teams are influenced heavily by the polls and media talking heads; and that ultimately plays a role in where they rank those teams within the CFP rankings (specifically in the first set of rankings). Illinois might suck, but people will say it was a huge B1G conference win for Indiana over a ranked team and they can use that data point for CFP selection. It’s a joke.

Illinois might suck but the people who pay the closest attention had them at #9. Think about that.