OT: D1

[EastStroud13]

I do hope the P4 rips off the band-aid and splits off eventually. They've effectively ruined college sports for everyone else. F off to your own thing and maybe the rest of college football can begin to make some sense again.

I watched the second half of JMU/Oregon and it was massively entertaining. I won't be watching the remainder of the CFP. I just don't care about any of the remaining teams.

[Chuck Norris]

Just remember, every conference has equal access to every other level of NCAA football. There are many years when the PSAC champion probably would have been excluded. If there wasn't regionalization in D2, the PSAC would have very few if any deep playoff runs.

A lot of the people saying the G5 doesn't belong would throw themselves off a high rise if the AFC North was determined to be too weak to compete for a Super Bowl.

And if/when the FBS field expands to 24 or 32 teams, then absolutely put all the conference champions in. 12 is far too small of a field to do that. I like the current rules for the 12 team field. And given how things unfolded in the ACC I have no problem that JMU and Tulane got in. I’m just not completely dug in on one side or the other. I’m willing to listen to those who are disappointed that two of the games this weekend were always expected to be non-competitive and they lived up to that expectation.

[TheBigCat2192]

Just remember, every conference has equal access to every other level of NCAA football. There are many years when the PSAC champion probably would have been excluded. If there wasn't regionalization in D2, the PSAC would have very few if any deep playoff runs.

A lot of the people saying the G5 doesn't belong would throw themselves off a high rise if the AFC North was determined to be too weak to compete for a Super Bowl.

This wasn’t true in D2 until this year btw. Newberry got left out in favor of another SAC member in 2022 because they didn’t rate highly enough in SR2s rating system. The NE10 didn’t get a rep at all in 2019. Does this mean that those D2 playoff fields and champions and all others from before are somehow illegitimate? I keep pointing this out and yet somehow none of the people clamoring that we should take all FBS conference champs can answer the question.

[Fightingscot82]

This wasn’t true in D2 until this year btw. Newberry got left out in favor of another SAC member in 2022 because they didn’t rate highly enough in SR2s rating system. The NE10 didn’t get a rep at all in 2019. Does this mean that those D2 playoff fields and champions and all others from before are somehow illegitimate? I keep pointing this out and yet somehow none of the people clamoring that we should take all FBS conference champs can answer the question.

Autobids, yes, didn't start until this year. But the PSAC is popularly viewed within D2 as FBS fans view G5 conferences.

[Fightingscot82]

And if/when the FBS field expands to 24 or 32 teams, then absolutely put all the conference champions in. 12 is far too small of a field to do that. I like the current rules for the 12 team field. And given how things unfolded in the ACC I have no problem that JMU and Tulane got in. I’m just not completely dug in on one side or the other. I’m willing to listen to those who are disappointed that two of the games this weekend were always expected to be non-competitive and they lived up to that expectation.

I think 16 is a good number. No byes. Every FBS conference champion plus a handful of wild cards that should use as an objective determination as possible. **** polls. Paul Finebaum is always going to vote with his bias. Will the media voter from Dallas favor Houston or North Texas over A&M or Tech? Who the hell knows. We don't know. Same for the coaches. Saban now thinks half the field should be SEC because that's how he makes money now. Would he have felt the same way when he was at Michigan State or Toledo?

[IUPbigINDIANS]

I think 16 is a good number. No byes. Every FBS conference champion plus a handful of wild cards that should use as an objective determination as possible. **** polls. Paul Finebaum is always going to vote with his bias. Will the media voter from Dallas favor Houston or North Texas over A&M or Tech? Who the hell knows. We don't know. Same for the coaches. Saban now thinks half the field should be SEC because that's how he makes money now. Would he have felt the same way when he was at Michigan State or Toledo?

I still go back to the question:

What would Tulane's record be in the SEC or the BIG? They'd probably go 2-10.

I can promise we wouldn't be discussing them.

These conferences aren't equal.

[Fightingscot82]

I still go back to the question:

What would Toledo's record be in the SEC or the BIG? They'd probably go 2-10.

I can promise we wouldn't be discussing them.

These conferences aren't equal.

I actually think they were more equal before the consolidation started.

[TheBigCat2192]

Autobids, yes, didn't start until this year. But the PSAC is popularly viewed within D2 as FBS fans view G5 conferences.

Those two sentences don’t answer my question. We are aligned in not wanting too much of the current P4 favoritism (see my prior post to IUP24 saying that I felt Duke or another hypothetical P4 champion with a similar record shouldn’t have been chosen over JMU or Tulane simply because they were P4 champs) but I would still like a straight answer: are prior D2 champions somehow illegitimate because we did not automatically select conference champions? If not, then why is it wrong for FBS to use a system which does not automatically take all conference champions?

Keep in mind also that part of D2’s core principles is increased access to championship opportunities as seen here in its mission statement:

(2) Athletics. Division II supports athletics achievement through highly competitive programs that strive to participate in the division’s 25 national championships, which offer the best access ratio among the NCAA’s three divisions.

The NCAA mission statement as a whole only states that its mission wrt to championships is to

Deliver excellent and inclusive championships.

No guidance is given in the mission statement on whether more weight should be put on “excellent” or “inclusive” or even what “inclusive” means (i.e. whether it means taking all conference champions or simply all good teams.) The CFP is lacking a single mission statement but their website gives this response to the question “what is the mission of the College Football Playoff Selection Committee?”

The selection committee’s task is to select the 25 best teams in college football, rank the teams for inclusion in the playoff, assign the teams to the playoff bracket, and then determine their bowl sites.

Given the ambiguity of the NCAA’s mission statement on championships and the fact that FBS does not explicitly prioritize championship access as D2 does I just don’t see the argument that the CFP must use the same criteria as D2, FCS, or D3.

I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree on how the field should be selected but I do appreciate the polite response.

[Ram040506]

I think 16 is a good number. No byes. Every FBS conference champion plus a handful of wild cards that should use as an objective determination as possible. **** polls. Paul Finebaum is always going to vote with his bias. Will the media voter from Dallas favor Houston or North Texas over A&M or Tech? Who the hell knows. We don't know. Same for the coaches. Saban now thinks half the field should be SEC because that's how he makes money now. Would he have felt the same way when he was at Michigan State or Toledo?

16 I think would make it worse if you are including conference champs across the board.

I agree that all the conference champs should be included, but the 24 team field that FCS uses is that way to go. 9 conference champs + 15 at large teams. Inclusion for the cinderella stories and basically everyone down to UVA in the playoff rankings would have been in.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

16 I think would make it worse if you are including conference champs across the board.

I agree that all the conference champs should be included, but the 24 team field that FCS uses is that way to go. 9 conference champs + 15 at large teams. Inclusion for the cinderella stories and basically everyone down to UVA in the playoff rankings would have been in.

They are going to be playing a longer season than the NFL.

We have to at least pretend the 'student' part counts. Wink Wink.

There's no right answer. There's no wrong answer. Whatever happens we'll just yap about it anyway.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Just remember, every conference has equal access to every other level of NCAA football. There are many years when the PSAC champion probably would have been excluded. If there wasn't regionalization in D2, the PSAC would have very few if any deep playoff runs.

A lot of the people saying the G5 doesn't belong would throw themselves off a high rise if the AFC North was determined to be too weak to compete for a Super Bowl.

I remember not long ago in men's basketball the Atlantic Region had -- no joke -- like 4 teams in the Top 15 of the final poll (and 3 of them were in the Top 7).

Obviously D2 has to have the tournament regionalized (as they aren't paying all that travel) but imagine D1 putting (3) Top 7 teams in the same bracket.

To your point, yes, most years the SR1 football champion would get bounced in Round 1 or Round 2 in a true (seeded) bracket.

[Fightingscot82]

16 I think would make it worse if you are including conference champs across the board.

I agree that all the conference champs should be included, but the 24 team field that FCS uses is that way to go. 9 conference champs + 15 at large teams. Inclusion for the cinderella stories and basically everyone down to UVA in the playoff rankings would have been in.

Having more at large bids than conference champions dilutes the value of being a conference champion. Next year we're back to 10 FBS conferences and 16 still allows for the second place team from each P5 conference plus an independent like Notre Dame. Theoretically, once you've auto-bid the conference champions you can use a formula to identify the 6 "best" teams. The more you expand it and the more its subjective, the more the SEC and Big 10 will lean on the powers to have the bracket favor them. This is what they've done with MBB.

[Ram040506]

They are going to be playing a longer season than the NFL.

We have to at least pretend the 'student' part counts. Wink Wink.

There's no right answer. There's no wrong answer. Whatever happens we'll just yap about it anyway.

I meant to add that with this, you'd have to scratch the conference title games. Just declare your conference rep and then we are onto the at large grouping. Cap the season at 11 games, then have the 24 team playoff like FCS.

Yes, someone will always yap, but if you aren't one of the 15 at large, your not even close to contention. I feel like an argument at the 15th spot of Virginia/Houston and Michigan would have been much less emotional for some.

[Ram040506]

Having more at large bids than conference champions dilutes the value of being a conference champion. Next year we're back to 10 FBS conferences and 16 still allows for the second place team from each P5 conference plus an independent like Notre Dame. Theoretically, once you've auto-bid the conference champions you can use a formula to identify the 6 "best" teams. The more you expand it and the more its subjective, the more the SEC and Big 10 will lean on the powers to have the bracket favor them. This is what they've done with MBB.

The value of being a conference champion is virtually nothing at this point. Going to 24 at least gives every conference some value and inclusion across the board.

[Fightingscot82]

I meant to add that with this, you'd have to scratch the conference title games. Just declare your conference rep and then we are onto the at large grouping. Cap the season at 11 games, then have the 24 team playoff like FCS.

Yes, someone will always yap, but if you aren't one of the 15 at large, your not even close to contention. I feel like an argument at the 15th spot of Virginia/Houston and Michigan would have been much less emotional for some.

I also think the FBS season should go back to 11 games. Or at least 11 FBS games. If they want to pay Northern Arizona $500k to pad their resume, that's beyond the 11 FBS games.