OT: D1

[ctrabs74]

The sense of entitlement is probably off the charts.........

And, considering "Big Brother" in Austin always finds away to overshadow the Aggies, the entitlement levels is off the charts.

SMU students can fall into that same "entitlement" rut, but it's nothing compared to NIL aTm.

[IUPNation]

"Cult-like" has been one way to describe the gameday atmosphere in College Station.

Well...that's not a surprise considering the culture of that school.....

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Well...that's not a surprise considering the culture of that school.....

And for a few years Johnny Football was literally Jesus Christ in College Station.

[IUPNation]

And for a few years Johnny Football was literally Jesus Christ in College Station.

Lets just say The Texastan School For Farmers is never going to be mistaken for a liberal arts institution.

[TheBigCat2192]

This probably belongs in the D1 thread in the basketball forum but since no one reads that I figured I’d share it here. Penny Hardaway (Memphis basketball HC) is on a one-man mission to unintentionally have student-athletes declared employees. About a week ago The Daily Helmsman, Memphis’ student paper, reported that the team had been withholding NIL payments from a player. From the article:

Memphis forward Aaron Bradshaw has had more than $20,000 withheld from his NIL compensation due to multiple violations of team rules, according to sources who spoke to The Daily Helmsman.

Two days later another article from a Memphis guy confirmed this with some more direct quotes from Hardaway:

Hardaway is taking action to get the sacrifice and buy-in he desires, too.

The eighth-year head man confirmed to reporters that he’s fined Bradshaw and others showing up late to practice, disobeying Memphis’ dress code and violating other team rules.

“You can fine guys for sure. A lot of guys and teams around the country have the rules set that if you continue to do these things, then these are the fines. Hey man, they’re paid athletes now.”

I’m very curious by what mechanic players can be “fined” if they’re not employees. It’s also worth noting that the article from the Helmsman clarifies that Bradshaw had money from an NIL deal withheld rather than paying the team but that still raises the question of how exactly the team can do that. If the NIL deal is for “Name, Image, and Likeness” then it seems confusing that it can be withheld by the team for performance reasons or rule violations. One wonders when Memphis will be forced to offer these guys vacation weeks and a 401k.

[Fightingscot82]

This probably belongs in the D1 thread in the basketball forum but since no one reads that I figured I’d share it here. Penny Hardaway (Memphis basketball HC) is on a one-man mission to unintentionally have student-athletes declared employees. About a week ago The Daily Helmsman, Memphis’ student paper, reported that the team had been withholding NIL payments from a player. From the article:



Two days later another article from a Memphis guy confirmed this with some more direct quotes from Hardaway:





I’m very curious by what mechanic players can be “fined” if they’re not employees. It’s also worth noting that the article from the Helmsman clarifies that Bradshaw had money from an NIL deal withheld rather than paying the team but that still raises the question of how exactly the team can do that. If the NIL deal is for “Name, Image, and Likeness” then it seems confusing that it can be withheld by the team for performance reasons or rule violations. One wonders when Memphis will be forced to offer these guys vacation weeks and a 401k.

Upside is that being declared employees will get these players access to health insurance and retirement options available to all university employees. More important for some is that they'll start earning Social Security credits.

BIG downside is the cost. An awful lot of rank and file university employees make modest amounts and do it for the decent health insurance and tuition waiver for their kids. These health insurance plans will cost the universities tens of millions on top of the salary and also result in a downgrading of whatever the university offers all other employees to minimize that cost. When you're making $50k its hard to come up with that high deductible.

[TheBigCat2192]

Upside is that being declared employees will get these players access to health insurance and retirement options available to all university employees. More important for some is that they'll start earning Social Security credits.

BIG downside is the cost. An awful lot of rank and file university employees make modest amounts and do it for the decent health insurance and tuition waiver for their kids. These health insurance plans will cost the universities tens of millions on top of the salary and also result in a downgrading of whatever the university offers all other employees to minimize that cost. When you're making $50k it’s hard to come up with that high deductible.

You’re not wrong for the big schools but I don’t think our PASSHE schools (or most D2/D3 schools for that matter) could continue athletics as they are now if they had to pay the players as employees. Between the actual wages, benefits, and the (likely) new HR staffers you’d need to handle the paperwork the cost would be enormous. And before someone says “how can they be an employee if our teams make no money!!!,” remember that employment is a relationship defined by criteria like control over your schedule and behavior, NOT whether or not the company makes money. If you work for a retailer that loses money they still have to pay you.

[Fightingscot82]

You’re not wrong for the big schools but I don’t think our PASSHE schools (or most D2/D3 schools for that matter) could continue athletics as they are now if they had to pay the players as employees. Between the actual wages, benefits, and the (likely) new HR staffers you’d need to handle the paperwork the cost would be enormous. And before someone says “how can they be an employee if our teams make no money!!!,” remember that employment is a relationship defined by criteria like control over your schedule and behavior, NOT whether or not the company makes money. If you work for a retailer that loses money they still have to pay you.

Correct all across. Plus, if they're employees, they get full tuition waiver instead of it being paid by grants & scholarships. That's additional lost revenue in the millions.

[Ship69]

Correct all across. Plus, if they're employees, they get full tuition waiver instead of it being paid by grants & scholarships. That's additional lost revenue in the millions.

Yeah, that doesn't seem like a viable option for most D2 schools. D3 might get a lot larger if it came to that. I'm not sure how viable some of the D2 conferences are in the long term even if they continue along in the present model. The competitive inequity seems to be growing.

[Fightingscot82]

Yeah, that doesn't seem like a viable option for most D2 schools. D3 might get a lot larger if it came to that. I'm not sure how viable some of the D2 conferences are in the long term even if they continue along in the present model. The competitive inequity seems to be growing.

I think the era of the career head coach is nearing it's end. The comments by Tort in the IUP magazine are profound: each off-season is spent re-recruiting the entire roster to stay. You're managing a lot more player feelings. That gets tiresome. For 125 years, high school and college football has been a "we over me" sport but that's rapidly changing.

[TheBigCat2192]

Yeah, that doesn't seem like a viable option for most D2 schools. D3 might get a lot larger if it came to that. I'm not sure how viable some of the D2 conferences are in the long term even if they continue along in the present model. The competitive inequity seems to be growing.

If D3 schools have the same kind of time requirements as D2 schools and exercise as much control over the players schedules they might be vulnerable to having the players declared employees as well. At that point the only realistic option to continue inter-scholastic athletic competition would be to embrace employment fully (which some large football/basketball factories at the D1 level would probably do) or de-professionalize. That is to say, eliminate the paid HC position and return to a volunteer faculty member or even an upperclassman leading teams, severely curtail practice time and team rules, and likely move to an old-timey regionalized schedule (basically within carpool or rented bus drive distance.)

[Ship69]

If D3 schools have the same kind of time requirements as D2 schools and exercise as much control over the players schedules they might be vulnerable to having the players declared employees as well. At that point the only realistic option to continue inter-scholastic athletic competition would be to embrace employment fully (which some large football/basketball factories at the D1 level would probably do) or de-professionalize. That is to say, eliminate the paid HC position and return to a volunteer faculty member or even an upperclassman leading teams, severely curtail practice time and team rules, and likely move to an old-timey regionalized schedule (basically within carpool or rented bus drive distance.)

If it really got out of hand, I could see it eventually going toward sort of a club style model, as they do it in Europe. I don't know if you'd have to eliminate paid positions (even at the high school level coaches are paid a stipend for their coaching activities, and we all know that many physical education hires are made for coaching purposes). You'd contact the high schools, and say, look, our school has a football club. and there's an opportunity to play here for those who want to do it. If the players are not under contract and volunteer to play football, it would be difficult to argue discriminatory practices. Nobody would be forced to play football, any more than they'd be forced to join the debate club or chess team.

[IUPNation]

The Nits lead 6-3 at the half.

Fail2Pitt losing to East Carolina in the 4th.

[Bart]

If it really got out of hand, I could see it eventually going toward sort of a club style model, as they do it in Europe. I don't know if you'd have to eliminate paid positions (even at the high school level coaches are paid a stipend for their coaching activities, and we all know that many physical education hires are made for coaching purposes). You'd contact the high schools, and say, look, our school has a football club. and there's an opportunity to play here for those who want to do it. If the players are not under contract and volunteer to play football, it would be difficult to argue discriminatory practices. Nobody would be forced to play football, any more than they'd be forced to join the debate club or chess team.

When I was in college, every sport was coached by a faculty member. Usually they would teach 1/2 time and coach 1/2 depending on the sport.

[IUPNation]

Fail2Pitt loses to East Carolina