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  • Originally posted by WarriorVoice View Post

    Come on man, I'm sure someone bought somebody from IUP at least ONE dinner...:) You guys have to figure out how to stop getting screwed!!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

      The state owns the 14 universities you know from the PSAC like Slippery Rock, IUP, West Chester, etc. The state gives annual appropriations to Penn State, Pitt, Temple, and Lincoln. They're not state owned or controlled or even subject to open records law. But the state gives them money in exchange for seats on their board and lower tuition for PA students.

      The state has funded Penn State from day one. In 1965 they bailed out failing Temple, Pitt in 1966, and Lincoln in 1971. Those three bailouts saved failing private universities on the brink of bankruptcy and in exchange for significant annual payments from the states the schools agree to charge a lower rate for PA residents. I guess this was a common thing in the 1960s and it did open up access to a major research university education for some. The longterm challenge is that now Pitt has flourished (top 20 public, $4 billion endowment) and both Pitt and Penn State have nearly 25 4 year branch campuses that compete with the state owned universities.

      Comment


      • Creepy Valley is far too powerful. Pitt has become a top medical institution.

        They aren't going to scale back the bread and butter in favor or the Art History schools.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by IUPNation View Post

          I think CUNY was free at one time.
          Until '76 they were tuition free and since they were virtually completely non resident that was a great advantage for NYC students, like my wife of QUEENS COLLEGE '70. QC enrollment of nearly 19,000 would surprise you if you saw their campus.

          Comment


          • I agree on stopping state funding for branch campuses. What really pisses me off is that the state has awarded money toward the construction of athletic and residential construction on Pitt & Penn State branch campuses but almost never do that for PASSHE. I just don't know how the ban would be enacted - the legislature has no control over the budgets at the state related schools so they'd have to pass a new law. Lord knows that won't happen.

            I don't see it happening - too many PA legislators believe their tax dollars shouldn't fund education. So they'll likely never approve a radical funding increase. There should be a target tuition amount and some hard work to figure out how to make it happen. Consolidation of administrative functions, infusion of state funding, etc.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

              I agree on stopping state funding for branch campuses. What really pisses me off is that the state has awarded money toward the construction of athletic and residential construction on Pitt & Penn State branch campuses but almost never do that for PASSHE. I just don't know how the ban would be enacted - the legislature has no control over the budgets at the state related schools so they'd have to pass a new law. Lord knows that won't happen.

              I don't see it happening - too many PA legislators believe their tax dollars shouldn't fund education. So they'll likely never approve a radical funding increase. There should be a target tuition amount and some hard work to figure out how to make it happen. Consolidation of administrative functions, infusion of state funding, etc.
              Any competition between the state-relateds and state-owned institutions is unimportant. Budget-wise, they are distinct items. As far as I know, the state schools have never made any inroads against state-related funding.

              What matters now is the new policy of merging schools. Face it, merging is a euphemism for closing them. Not completely, as the plan states there will always be a footprint left in the community. Care to project what that footprint will look like in Mansfield, Edinboro, or California?

              On top of all the ed perspectives on this, the state of PA is in dire straits fiscally. Look for cuts across the board. The pandemic impact to date (it might not get better for a while) affects 2 consecutive fiscal years. It affected FY 2020 which ended 2 days ago. I don't believe a budget has been passed for FY2021 which started yesterday.

              It's going to be cuts, cuts, cuts. Pennsylvanians are averse to tax increases. On the state income tax they won't even add a few hundreds of a percentage point. Pennsylvanians want to complain about the roads but when it came to a partial solution of tolling I-80 the locals along the I-80 corridor persisted that it 'would ruin their local economies.' Pennsylvania will continue to decline. PA outside of SE PA, that is. SEPA will continue to be vibrant enough economically to avert all the state nonsense.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                Any competition between the state-relateds and state-owned institutions is unimportant. Budget-wise, they are distinct items. As far as I know, the state schools have never made any inroads against state-related funding.

                What matters now is the new policy of merging schools. Face it, merging is a euphemism for closing them. Not completely, as the plan states there will always be a footprint left in the community. Care to project what that footprint will look like in Mansfield, Edinboro, or California?

                On top of all the ed perspectives on this, the state of PA is in dire straits fiscally. Look for cuts across the board. The pandemic impact to date (it might not get better for a while) affects 2 consecutive fiscal years. It affected FY 2020 which ended 2 days ago. I don't believe a budget has been passed for FY2021 which started yesterday.

                It's going to be cuts, cuts, cuts. Pennsylvanians are averse to tax increases. On the state income tax they won't even add a few hundreds of a percentage point. Pennsylvanians want to complain about the roads but when it came to a partial solution of tolling I-80 the locals along the I-80 corridor persisted that it 'would ruin their local economies.' Pennsylvania will continue to decline. PA outside of SE PA, that is. SEPA will continue to be vibrant enough economically to avert all the state nonsense.
                We should secede! LOL!

                Imagine 5 counties that generates 40 percent of your revenue saying adios....

                Comment


                • Why not just do away with the state schools and provide additional funding to the state supported schools to upgrade their branch campuses? Isn't that similar to what the PASSHE is trying to do...cluster more successful schools with less successful "outlying" schools (branch campuses)??

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                    Any competition between the state-relateds and state-owned institutions is unimportant. Budget-wise, they are distinct items. As far as I know, the state schools have never made any inroads against state-related funding.

                    What matters now is the new policy of merging schools. Face it, merging is a euphemism for closing them. Not completely, as the plan states there will always be a footprint left in the community. Care to project what that footprint will look like in Mansfield, Edinboro, or California?

                    On top of all the ed perspectives on this, the state of PA is in dire straits fiscally. Look for cuts across the board. The pandemic impact to date (it might not get better for a while) affects 2 consecutive fiscal years. It affected FY 2020 which ended 2 days ago. I don't believe a budget has been passed for FY2021 which started yesterday.

                    It's going to be cuts, cuts, cuts. Pennsylvanians are averse to tax increases. On the state income tax they won't even add a few hundreds of a percentage point. Pennsylvanians want to complain about the roads but when it came to a partial solution of tolling I-80 the locals along the I-80 corridor persisted that it 'would ruin their local economies.' Pennsylvania will continue to decline. PA outside of SE PA, that is. SEPA will continue to be vibrant enough economically to avert all the state nonsense.
                    Valid points all around. In NWPA (Erie, Crawford, Forest, Warren Counties), population is declining. Closing Edinboro puts 750+ out of a job and exposes an economically vulnerable region to greater decline and lesser educational access. Remember, this region doesn't have access to a brick and mortar community college either.

                    Best case scenario is that the state orders Edinboro to merge with Penn State Behrend. That theoretically creates a 10,000-12,000 student school. Behrend is landlocked while Edinboro doesn't just have building capacity, it has a couple hundred acres of undeveloped land it could use for futher expansion. Then possibly Erie County via the state "buys" the Behrend campus to create the much-needed community college for the region. Merging Edinboro and Clarion doesn't do much. Its as if you have one potato and one orange so you mix them together. The end product doesn't justify the mix.

                    State budget is about lobbying. The state school employees and legally separate but related affiliates (Alumni Associations, Student Government Associations, etc) are barred from true lobbying. They can hold "legislative breakfasts" with local legislators or send students to Harrisburg for "advocacy days" but can't run campaigns aimed at increasing funding. Penn State dedicates a full page to it in every alumni magazine. A big part of Penn State's funding is the College of Agriculture. That industry is their founding but the industry in PA has declined precipitously over the last several decades. Do you know what hasn't declined? The ag supplemental appropriation to Penn State.

                    Comment


                    • [QUOTE=Fightingscot82;n517599]


                      "Best case scenario is that the state orders Edinboro to merge with Penn State Behrend. That theoretically creates a 10,000-12,000 student school. Behrend is landlocked while Edinboro doesn't just have building capacity, it has a couple hundred acres of undeveloped land it could use for futher expansion. Then possibly Erie County via the state "buys" the Behrend campus to create the much-needed community college for the region. Merging Edinboro and Clarion doesn't do much. Its as if you have one potato and one orange so you mix them together. The end product doesn't justify the mix."

                      From wiki EUP 4,646 total students 586 acres, PS Behrend 5,050 total students 854 acres.
                      PS B degree more prestigious then Boro.
                      PS B also has a research park attached to it and is a more modern campus.
                      I would think make Boro a cc and allow PS b to continue as a 4yr institution

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE=Sec10-A-14;n517862]
                        Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post


                        "Best case scenario is that the state orders Edinboro to merge with Penn State Behrend. That theoretically creates a 10,000-12,000 student school. Behrend is landlocked while Edinboro doesn't just have building capacity, it has a couple hundred acres of undeveloped land it could use for futher expansion. Then possibly Erie County via the state "buys" the Behrend campus to create the much-needed community college for the region. Merging Edinboro and Clarion doesn't do much. Its as if you have one potato and one orange so you mix them together. The end product doesn't justify the mix."

                        From wiki EUP 4,646 total students 586 acres, PS Behrend 5,050 total students 854 acres.
                        PS B degree more prestigious then Boro.
                        PS B also has a research park attached to it and is a more modern campus.
                        I would think make Boro a cc and allow PS b to continue as a 4yr institution
                        Boro has excess capacity *and* room to grow. I'm not sure if that acreage for Edinboro includes their cross country course. It's not included on the campus map. Edinboro built a campus for 10,000 because that's what an idiot former president thought was feasible in light of democratic decline. Behrend has a campus slowly built as enrollment increased. Research park is just leased land. Technically the GetGo along I 90 is in the knowledge park. Either way, Edinboro has more potential than Behrend.

                        Hard to assess whether a Behrend degree is worth more since Behrend doesn't award degrees.

                        Comment


                        • Hmm, strange a 4yr school connected to Penn State doesn't offer degrees. My son went there for 2yrs then on to main for his BA and his MA from Tx A&M.
                          I offer this
                          https://behrend.psu.edu/Academics/ac.../majors-minors

                          EUP school of business ranked 87th in Pa of 156 schools
                          PS Behrend school of business ranked 27th in PA
                          Last edited by Sec10-A-14; 07-06-2020, 09:54 AM.

                          Comment


                          • As much as I love a good pissing match about a hypothetical situation, I'll throw in the towel. I guess it doesn't make sense to choose the location with existing capacity (i.e. empty buildings and so many open fields it annually hosts massive youth soccer tournaments).

                            But just to mansplain you so more...Behrend doesn't actually award the degrees. They're Penn State degrees. Its also why Penn State Behrend doesn't get counted in a lot of college rankings - they're only semi-autonomous. They're the most autonomous of the Penn State BFE branches but they're still just a glorified franchise.

                            Edinboro's school of business was only started in 2012 so I'll take that ranking.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
                              As much as I love a good pissing match about a hypothetical situation, I'll throw in the towel. I guess it doesn't make sense to choose the location with existing capacity (i.e. empty buildings and so many open fields it annually hosts massive youth soccer tournaments).

                              But just to mansplain you so more...Behrend doesn't actually award the degrees. They're Penn State degrees. Its also why Penn State Behrend doesn't get counted in a lot of college rankings - they're only semi-autonomous. They're the most autonomous of the Penn State BFE branches but they're still just a glorified franchise.

                              Edinboro's school of business was only started in 2012 so I'll take that ranking.

                              It is alarming how the BFE branches have made a run. I remember 20-25 years ago I'd have never even considered one. I had a couple friends go to Pitt-Greensburg. It was like 13th grade in my opinion as it just seemed like a high school but, no doubt, these branches are making a serious run and stealing a lot of what used to be sure-fire PASSHE kids.

                              I'll use IUP as an example as I'm most familiar with it ... but the IUP campus is really nice now. Not joking it's like 25 times nicer than it was in the late 90s. The Grant Street project is almost finished (Grant Street used to run through the middle of campus). What many of us knew as Grant Street is now removed and that portion of campus is being landscaped with trees, etc. So, the campus is now kind of a large rectangle. But, you can now finally walk just about the whole campus without crossing busy streets.

                              A lot of our campuses saw major improvements. SRU and Cal are tremendously better than 20 years ago. Irony, I suppose. When they were dumps they were booming. Make them nice ... and the kids go elsewhere. Anybody else remember dorm life on 90 degree days? Or, one bathroom at the end of the hall for 40 rooms to share? LOL. Good old days.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                                The state owns the 14 universities you know from the PSAC like Slippery Rock, IUP, West Chester, etc. The state gives annual appropriations to Penn State, Pitt, Temple, and Lincoln. They're not state owned or controlled or even subject to open records law. But the state gives them money in exchange for seats on their board and lower tuition for PA students.

                                The state has funded Penn State from day one. In 1965 they bailed out failing Temple, Pitt in 1966, and Lincoln in 1971. Those three bailouts saved failing private universities on the brink of bankruptcy and in exchange for significant annual payments from the states the schools agree to charge a lower rate for PA residents. I guess this was a common thing in the 1960s and it did open up access to a major research university education for some. The longterm challenge is that now Pitt has flourished (top 20 public, $4 billion endowment) and both Pitt and Penn State have nearly 25 4 year branch campuses that compete with the state owned universities.
                                Interesting - so Pitt and PSU are not public institutions, just funded publicly with the agreement that they lower tuition costs?

                                Makes sense.

                                Comment

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