Consolidation Conference

[boatcapt]

Not a "state" member. Only an associate member. And from an article by Matt Burgland in the Indiana Gazette on August 17, 2012:


Too bad the MEC board is dead, and you have to resort to trolling the PSAC board.

PSAC is in SR1 as is the MEC...This is a PSAC problem but one that also effects SR1 so I'm responding here. If there was a dedicated SR1 board, I'd respond there. If you think I'm trolling, ignore me and certainly don't reply to my troll posts!!

[boatcapt]

Once again "try and build a 12 team football conference"....?..!?..Huh ?

Ship and Millersville.

[boatcapt]

Okay, looking back since the future is certainly cloudy. Prior to '08 the PSAC was exclusively PASSHE. In that year 2 GLIAC privates GANNON and MERCYHURST decided it was not in their interest to belong to a MICHIGAN based conference and decided they'd join a PA based one. PSAC said okay as long as you're good joining an all public conference. In order to have 2-8 team divisions LHU was shifted to the WEST and CW POST was invited to join the EAST for football and field hockey only. All is good until '11 when SHU, perhaps based on the experience of GU and HURST, also decided to join their home state conference. And then again in '13 another PA private UPJ decided playing mostly in a PA based league made sense especially since they weren't required to add football. Were these schools contacted by the home office in LOCK HAVEN or did they make the first call ? I have no idea but it is safe to say that membership in one of the NCAA's largest conferences was not a hard sell. So an 18 team league , 16 in FB, goes right on until CHEYNEY acknowledges what was obvious and drops all sports. Need a team to fill a spot and who pops up but SHEPHERD. Once again I, personally, have no idea who called who but I also would say it was not a hard sell. The RAMS become the very first NON PENNSYLVANIA all sports team in league history. Prior to CHEYNEY's decision the ONLY other change of note in the league's history was the decision of MANSFIELD to move out of FB in '07 although they still compete (???) in 10 M&W sports.
So as far as I can tell only MU and CU were examples of PASSHE schools significantly cutting sports in the nearly 70 year history of the PSAC. And the only example of a team coming and going was POST. All in all a pretty stable conference in an era of almost constant chaos. See GLIAC, GMAC, GNAC and WVIAC/MEC.
So now the PASSHE is finally doing it's job and trying to resolve major structural issues. Way too late, maybe fatally so, but at the end of it all my guess is that their will still be a PSAC, hopefully smaller and more efficient. And yes, if they are doing their job, they will certainly be on the lookout for potential new members. And they won't be looking at the NE10.

Yes Post is the only team to have actually left the conference, but not the only example of member schools either cutting major athletic programs or cutting athletics entirely. Although, I guess Cheyney hasn't actually cut their athletic programs as they still have a couple. In actuality, they left the PSAC and the NCAA so I guess, technically two teams have left the PSAC. For comparison, the MEC has had one program (Urbana) cut athletics (closed the school completely), and two schools leave (UV-Wise and Shepherd). The MEC has added two schools from the GMAC, one as an associate member (UNCP) and one moving up from D3 (Frostburgh). MEC appears to have one program is serious financial straights (WU) while the PSAC has several (Mansfield, Clarion, Locke Haven, Edinboro) and is in the process of reorganizing that probably will result in a number of these programs cutting athletics.

So who is in constant chaos?? PSAC has had seven "new programs" come to the conference, three programs either leave or severly cut their PSAC partisipation and four more on the current choping block. Seems like the PSAC is in as much chaos as the GLIAC, GMAC, GNAC and MEC.

[Horror Child]

Post.

Not a "state" member. Only an associate member. And from an article by Matt Burgland in the Indiana Gazette on August 17, 2012:

But (PSAC Commissioner Steve) Murray said that when LIU-Post joined in 2008, the school was told that if expansion ever occurred, "We'd no longer be in need f associate members."

Too bad the MEC board is dead, and you have to resort to trolling the PSAC board.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

You can rationalize all you want but the bottom line is when PASSHE schools cut their athletics, PSAC goes looking in other conferences. When those schools are not needed anymore, they are quickly shown the door. That's the conferences go to move.

That's a good thing. They are agressive.

Look at what the ACC did to the Big East .. poached Pitt, Syracuse, Miami and Virginia Tech. They should have took WVU, too.

Adding Shepherd was as bold a 'poach' as you can make. Huge add for the PSAC. Don't be shocked if they go after Notre Dame next. West Liberty would be an attractive target.

Now they do need to trim some fat.

The strong survive.

[CALUPA69]

You can rationalize all you want but the bottom line is when PASSHE schools cut their athletics, PSAC goes looking in other conferences. When those schools are not needed anymore, they are quickly shown the door. That's the conferences go to move.

Okay, looking back since the future is certainly cloudy. Prior to '08 the PSAC was exclusively PASSHE. In that year 2 GLIAC privates GANNON and MERCYHURST decided it was not in their interest to belong to a MICHIGAN based conference and decided they'd join a PA based one. PSAC said okay as long as you're good joining an all public conference. In order to have 2-8 team divisions LHU was shifted to the WEST and CW POST was invited to join the EAST for football and field hockey only. All is good until '11 when SHU, perhaps based on the experience of GU and HURST, also decided to join their home state conference. And then again in '13 another PA private UPJ decided playing mostly in a PA based league made sense especially since they weren't required to add football. Were these schools contacted by the home office in LOCK HAVEN or did they make the first call ? I have no idea but it is safe to say that membership in one of the NCAA's largest conferences was not a hard sell. So an 18 team league , 16 in FB, goes right on until CHEYNEY acknowledges what was obvious and drops all sports. Need a team to fill a spot and who pops up but SHEPHERD. Once again I, personally, have no idea who called who but I also would say it was not a hard sell. The RAMS become the very first NON PENNSYLVANIA all sports team in league history. Prior to CHEYNEY's decision the ONLY other change of note in the league's history was the decision of MANSFIELD to move out of FB in '07 although they still compete (???) in 10 M&W sports.
So as far as I can tell only MU and CU were examples of PASSHE schools significantly cutting sports in the nearly 70 year history of the PSAC. And the only example of a team coming and going was POST. All in all a pretty stable conference in an era of almost constant chaos. See GLIAC, GMAC, GNAC and WVIAC/MEC.
So now the PASSHE is finally doing it's job and trying to resolve major structural issues. Way too late, maybe fatally so, but at the end of it all my guess is that their will still be a PSAC, hopefully smaller and more efficient. And yes, if they are doing their job, they will certainly be on the lookout for potential new members. And they won't be looking at the NE10.

[boatcapt]

So.....none.

Post.

[Horror Child]

That's the PSAC's go to move, isn't it! When a PSAC school can't cut it and has to drop out of the conference, just take a non PA school! Mansfield can't cut it and has to drop football...take a NE10 school...Use them for a few years then when the WVIAC closes down, take Seton Hill and kick Post to the curb. Cheyney can't cut the mustard and drops athletics...take a MEC school...Other PSAC schools on the verge of colapse...Try and take another out of state DII school.

Given the PSAC's history of kicking out of state members to the curb when they are no longer needed, Shepherd has to be pretty worried right about now!

So.....none.

[boatcapt]

If you didn't notice POST used the PSAC for football and field hockey competition for 4 years otherwise they were all NE10. And as things turned out they had other plans altogether and were in no way kicked to the curb. Conference fans had been begging CHEYNEY to drop the sport for years and they finally did out of necessity. Since at the time it happened the PSAC included every D2 school in Pa, the only option to replace the WOLVES was to check out of state. SHEPHERD seemed happy to make the jump, especially since they had nothing left to prove in the MEC. I could be wrong but the RAMS seemed pretty happy with season 1, but who can say.

You can rationalize all you want but the bottom line is when PASSHE schools cut their athletics, PSAC goes looking in other conferences. When those schools are not needed anymore, they are quickly shown the door. That's the conferences go to move.

[CALUPA69]

That's the PSAC's go to move, isn't it! When a PSAC school can't cut it and has to drop out of the conference, just take a non PA school! Mansfield can't cut it and has to drop football...take a NE10 school...Use them for a few years then when the WVIAC closes down, take Seton Hill and kick Post to the curb. Cheyney can't cut the mustard and drops athletics...take a MEC school...Other PSAC schools on the verge of colapse...Try and take another out of state DII school.

Given the PSAC's history of kicking out of state members to the curb when they are no longer needed, Shepherd has to be pretty worried right about now!

If you didn't notice POST used the PSAC for football and field hockey competition for 4 years otherwise they were all NE10. And as things turned out they had other plans altogether and were in no way kicked to the curb. Conference fans had been begging CHEYNEY to drop the sport for years and they finally did out of necessity. Since at the time it happened the PSAC included every D2 school in Pa, the only option to replace the WOLVES was to check out of state. SHEPHERD seemed happy to make the jump, especially since they had nothing left to prove in the MEC. I could be wrong but the RAMS seemed pretty happy with season 1, but who can say.

[boatcapt]

Yep. Or Frostburg. They'll poach somebody.

That's the PSAC's go to move, isn't it! When a PSAC school can't cut it and has to drop out of the conference, just take a non PA school! Mansfield can't cut it and has to drop football...take a NE10 school...Use them for a few years then when the WVIAC closes down, take Seton Hill and kick Post to the curb. Cheyney can't cut the mustard and drops athletics...take a MEC school...Other PSAC schools on the verge of colapse...Try and take another out of state DII school.

Given the PSAC's history of kicking out of state members to the curb when they are no longer needed, Shepherd has to be pretty worried right about now!

[boatcapt]

Or... stick with 13 and try to entice NDC. ;)

Those 400+ mile bus rides across the entire state of PA in January play a Wednesday night road basketball game would be really fun!

You could always steal Lincoln PA from the CIAA. They are close to a LOT of PSAC teams and they are in PA to boot! If the PSAC really wants to be the only DII game in PA, I'd think they would take them with open arms, right?? ;) :0

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Or... stick with 13 and try to entice NDC. ;)

Yep. Or Frostburg. They'll poach somebody.

[EastStroud13]

I think you need to start by determining the probability that the individual PASSHE schools maintaining football:

100% certainty - WCU and IUP
Highly Probable - SRU, Bloom, Cal, Kutz
Probable But Signifigant Chance Not - Ship, Millersville, ESU
More Probable not to have Football - Locke Haven, Clarion, Edinboro
Out of the Football Mix Already - Cheyney, Mansfield

I think the line will be drawn at Probable which would give the PSAC nine PASSHE members. At that point, the logical move for the PSAC is to try and build a 12 team football conference meaning one of the three private schools or the out of state schools will be kicked out. The PSAC line-up would be:


WCU
IUP
Cal
SRU
Bloom
Kutz
ESU

And three of the following:

Gannon
Hurst
SHU
Shepherd

Or... stick with 13 and try to entice NDC. ;)

[boatcapt]

Nice analysis but I think the consideration of athletic configurations probably falls below the midway point on the PASSHE to do list. However, from that list minus one from the non-PASSHE seems to be a 10 team league. What am I not seeing ??

I don't know. Weather a school survives is largely a $ issue and a million $'s (or more) on a schools bottom line could be tempting. Mansfield made that decision about football a number of years ago and that may have been enough for them to limp forward to today. Cheyney made a similar decision although they x'ed all rheir NCAA programs to save $'s. It at least got them to the table for this reorg that includes a gurantee that they will not be closed outright.

When a system is shaking the cushons for loose change, that dollar athletic departments have in their hand looks very enticing.