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  • #16
    Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

    You can rationalize all you want but the bottom line is when PASSHE schools cut their athletics, PSAC goes looking in other conferences. When those schools are not needed anymore, they are quickly shown the door. That's the conferences go to move.
    Okay, looking back since the future is certainly cloudy. Prior to '08 the PSAC was exclusively PASSHE. In that year 2 GLIAC privates GANNON and MERCYHURST decided it was not in their interest to belong to a MICHIGAN based conference and decided they'd join a PA based one. PSAC said okay as long as you're good joining an all public conference. In order to have 2-8 team divisions LHU was shifted to the WEST and CW POST was invited to join the EAST for football and field hockey only. All is good until '11 when SHU, perhaps based on the experience of GU and HURST, also decided to join their home state conference. And then again in '13 another PA private UPJ decided playing mostly in a PA based league made sense especially since they weren't required to add football. Were these schools contacted by the home office in LOCK HAVEN or did they make the first call ? I have no idea but it is safe to say that membership in one of the NCAA's largest conferences was not a hard sell. So an 18 team league , 16 in FB, goes right on until CHEYNEY acknowledges what was obvious and drops all sports. Need a team to fill a spot and who pops up but SHEPHERD. Once again I, personally, have no idea who called who but I also would say it was not a hard sell. The RAMS become the very first NON PENNSYLVANIA all sports team in league history. Prior to CHEYNEY's decision the ONLY other change of note in the league's history was the decision of MANSFIELD to move out of FB in '07 although they still compete (???) in 10 M&W sports.
    So as far as I can tell only MU and CU were examples of PASSHE schools significantly cutting sports in the nearly 70 year history of the PSAC. And the only example of a team coming and going was POST. All in all a pretty stable conference in an era of almost constant chaos. See GLIAC, GMAC, GNAC and WVIAC/MEC.
    So now the PASSHE is finally doing it's job and trying to resolve major structural issues. Way too late, maybe fatally so, but at the end of it all my guess is that their will still be a PSAC, hopefully smaller and more efficient. And yes, if they are doing their job, they will certainly be on the lookout for potential new members. And they won't be looking at the NE10.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

      You can rationalize all you want but the bottom line is when PASSHE schools cut their athletics, PSAC goes looking in other conferences. When those schools are not needed anymore, they are quickly shown the door. That's the conferences go to move.
      That's a good thing. They are agressive.

      Look at what the ACC did to the Big East .. poached Pitt, Syracuse, Miami and Virginia Tech. They should have took WVU, too.

      Adding Shepherd was as bold a 'poach' as you can make. Huge add for the PSAC. Don't be shocked if they go after Notre Dame next. West Liberty would be an attractive target.

      Now they do need to trim some fat.

      The strong survive.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

        Post.
        Not a "state" member. Only an associate member. And from an article by Matt Burgland in the Indiana Gazette on August 17, 2012:
        But (PSAC Commissioner Steve) Murray said that when LIU-Post joined in 2008, the school was told that if expansion ever occurred, "We'd no longer be in need f associate members."
        Too bad the MEC board is dead, and you have to resort to trolling the PSAC board.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post

          Okay, looking back since the future is certainly cloudy. Prior to '08 the PSAC was exclusively PASSHE. In that year 2 GLIAC privates GANNON and MERCYHURST decided it was not in their interest to belong to a MICHIGAN based conference and decided they'd join a PA based one. PSAC said okay as long as you're good joining an all public conference. In order to have 2-8 team divisions LHU was shifted to the WEST and CW POST was invited to join the EAST for football and field hockey only. All is good until '11 when SHU, perhaps based on the experience of GU and HURST, also decided to join their home state conference. And then again in '13 another PA private UPJ decided playing mostly in a PA based league made sense especially since they weren't required to add football. Were these schools contacted by the home office in LOCK HAVEN or did they make the first call ? I have no idea but it is safe to say that membership in one of the NCAA's largest conferences was not a hard sell. So an 18 team league , 16 in FB, goes right on until CHEYNEY acknowledges what was obvious and drops all sports. Need a team to fill a spot and who pops up but SHEPHERD. Once again I, personally, have no idea who called who but I also would say it was not a hard sell. The RAMS become the very first NON PENNSYLVANIA all sports team in league history. Prior to CHEYNEY's decision the ONLY other change of note in the league's history was the decision of MANSFIELD to move out of FB in '07 although they still compete (???) in 10 M&W sports.
          So as far as I can tell only MU and CU were examples of PASSHE schools significantly cutting sports in the nearly 70 year history of the PSAC. And the only example of a team coming and going was POST. All in all a pretty stable conference in an era of almost constant chaos. See GLIAC, GMAC, GNAC and WVIAC/MEC.
          So now the PASSHE is finally doing it's job and trying to resolve major structural issues. Way too late, maybe fatally so, but at the end of it all my guess is that their will still be a PSAC, hopefully smaller and more efficient. And yes, if they are doing their job, they will certainly be on the lookout for potential new members. And they won't be looking at the NE10.
          Yes Post is the only team to have actually left the conference, but not the only example of member schools either cutting major athletic programs or cutting athletics entirely. Although, I guess Cheyney hasn't actually cut their athletic programs as they still have a couple. In actuality, they left the PSAC and the NCAA so I guess, technically two teams have left the PSAC. For comparison, the MEC has had one program (Urbana) cut athletics (closed the school completely), and two schools leave (UV-Wise and Shepherd). The MEC has added two schools from the GMAC, one as an associate member (UNCP) and one moving up from D3 (Frostburgh). MEC appears to have one program is serious financial straights (WU) while the PSAC has several (Mansfield, Clarion, Locke Haven, Edinboro) and is in the process of reorganizing that probably will result in a number of these programs cutting athletics.

          So who is in constant chaos?? PSAC has had seven "new programs" come to the conference, three programs either leave or severly cut their PSAC partisipation and four more on the current choping block. Seems like the PSAC is in as much chaos as the GLIAC, GMAC, GNAC and MEC.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post

            Once again "try and build a 12 team football conference"....?..!?..Huh ?
            Ship and Millersville.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Horror Child View Post

              Not a "state" member. Only an associate member. And from an article by Matt Burgland in the Indiana Gazette on August 17, 2012:


              Too bad the MEC board is dead, and you have to resort to trolling the PSAC board.
              PSAC is in SR1 as is the MEC...This is a PSAC problem but one that also effects SR1 so I'm responding here. If there was a dedicated SR1 board, I'd respond there. If you think I'm trolling, ignore me and certainly don't reply to my troll posts!!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                PSAC is in SR1 as is the MEC...This is a PSAC problem but one that also effects SR1 so I'm responding here. If there was a dedicated SR1 board, I'd respond there. If you think I'm trolling, ignore me and certainly don't reply to my troll posts!!
                Lest your drivel is refuted, unwitting readers might fall prey to believing it.

                There is no problem. Given the PSAC's history of NOT kicking out members to the curb when they are no longer needed, Shepherd has nothing to worry about!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                  For comparison, the MEC has had one program (Urbana) cut athletics (closed the school completely), and two schools leave (UV-Wise and Shepherd).
                  Uhh, where did SETON HILL UNIVERSITY and UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH-JOHNSTOWN come from ?? Spontaneous creation ?? By the way the offer's always on the table....take SHU... PLEASE !! Wait a minute, wait a damn minute, you're actually splitting the MEC/WVIAC hair ??? Really that's the deal... I'm speechless !!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post
                    Uhh, where did SETON HILL UNIVERSITY and UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH-JOHNSTOWN come from ?? Spontaneous creation ?? By the way the offer's always on the table....take SHU... PLEASE !! Wait a minute, wait a damn minute, you're actually splitting the MEC/WVIAC hair ??? Really that's the deal... I'm speechless !!!
                    Oh I seriously doubt you are really speechless! The MEC and the WVIAC are two different conferences. Neither UPJ or Seton Hill were ever in the MEC.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Horror Child View Post

                      Lest your drivel is refuted, unwitting readers might fall prey to believing it.

                      There is no problem. Given the PSAC's history of NOT kicking out members to the curb when they are no longer needed, Shepherd has nothing to worry about!
                      News articles I read clearly indicate that the expulsion of Post from the PSAC was NOT by mutual agreement. Statements made by the Post AD clearly indicate that there was a lot of uncertanty about what Post would do after they left. Options discussed by Post's AD included playing as a DII Independent, going back to the NE-10 or going D1.

                      The reason stated was the PSAC's in-state additions to the conference meaning that the PSAC no longer needed Post.

                      To say that the PSAC's expulsion of Post was mutually agreed to is like saying my break-up with my first girlfriend was mutual!!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                        News articles I read clearly indicate that the expulsion of Post from the PSAC was NOT by mutual agreement. Statements made by the Post AD clearly indicate that there was a lot of uncertanty about what Post would do after they left. Options discussed by Post's AD included playing as a DII Independent, going back to the NE-10 or going D1.

                        The reason stated was the PSAC's in-state additions to the conference meaning that the PSAC no longer needed Post.

                        To say that the PSAC's expulsion of Post was mutually agreed to is like saying my break-up with my first girlfriend was mutual!!!
                        So we're in the WE SAID, THEY SAID discussion. How about this. I'll concede that PSAC tossed POST aside for the good of the conference if you'll agree that this SINGLE EVENT does not, in any way, constitute a PATTERN of ejections on their part. If any PSACer on this MB wants to DUMP SHEPHERD, please step up and have your say. IMO, the RAMS are in until they choose otherwise.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                          Oh I seriously doubt you are really speechless! The MEC and the WVIAC are two different conferences. Neither UPJ or Seton Hill were ever in the MEC.
                          Very lawyer-like parsing. I like it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                            You can rationalize all you want but the bottom line is when PASSHE schools cut their athletics, PSAC goes looking in other conferences. When those schools are not needed anymore, they are quickly shown the door. That's the conferences go to move.
                            I can assure you that in 2006 at the PSAC indoor track meet (held at ESU) Steve Murray (PSAC commissioner) told me that Shepherd reached out to the PSAC about joining if a spot ever opened.

                            He also told me the PSAC, NE-10, and WVIAC were trying to set up non-conference schedules for week 1. PSAC west vs WVIAC and PSAC east vs NE-10.

                            So your assumption that the PSAC raided Shepherd from you is false.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post

                              So we're in the WE SAID, THEY SAID discussion. How about this. I'll concede that PSAC tossed POST aside for the good of the conference if you'll agree that this SINGLE EVENT does not, in any way, constitute a PATTERN of ejections on their part. If any PSACer on this MB wants to DUMP SHEPHERD, please step up and have your say. IMO, the RAMS are in until they choose otherwise.
                              Folks on this board have been advocating for kicking Seton Hill out of the PSAC almost since they joined. Also many advocated for kicking Cheyney out before they left. I also remember a number of posts were folks have advocated for cutting all the "non-performers" out including but not limited to Mansfield, Clarion, Lock Haven and Edinboro. Yes, one school actually being kicked out of the PSAC does not constutute a trend in and of itself, but when you combine that with the other voluntary departures and the sentiment of a perhaps small but signifigant portion of the PSAC fan base you get a drum beat for kicking schools out when they are no longer needed.

                              As for Shepherd specifically being kicked out of the PSAC, while I don't see it happening, they are on the table. Here's why I think that. 1. They are a non-PASSHE school (PSAC first and foremost is a conference for PASSHE. The non-PASSHE schools are just place fillers), 2. They are the only school in the PSAC that is outside of Pennsylvania (The only other exampleof a non-PA school in the PSAC was Post and we know what happened to them, 3. They are the newest member of the PSAC (last in, first out). Again, I don't think the PSAC will dump them, but a case can be made that of the four not PASSHE schools, they are the ones that should be dropped...and I would imagine that the Hurst, Gannon and Seton Hill will make that case (if they want to stay in a trimmed down PSAC).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                                Folks on this board have been advocating for kicking Seton Hill out of the PSAC almost since they joined. Also many advocated for kicking Cheyney out before they left. I also remember a number of posts were folks have advocated for cutting all the "non-performers" out including but not limited to Mansfield, Clarion, Lock Haven and Edinboro. Yes, one school actually being kicked out of the PSAC does not constutute a trend in and of itself, but when you combine that with the other voluntary departures and the sentiment of a perhaps small but signifigant portion of the PSAC fan base you get a drum beat for kicking schools out when they are no longer needed.

                                As for Shepherd specifically being kicked out of the PSAC, while I don't see it happening, they are on the table. Here's why I think that. 1. They are a non-PASSHE school (PSAC first and foremost is a conference for PASSHE. The non-PASSHE schools are just place fillers), 2. They are the only school in the PSAC that is outside of Pennsylvania (The only other exampleof a non-PA school in the PSAC was Post and we know what happened to them, 3. They are the newest member of the PSAC (last in, first out). Again, I don't think the PSAC will dump them, but a case can be made that of the four not PASSHE schools, they are the ones that should be dropped...and I would imagine that the Hurst, Gannon and Seton Hill will make that case (if they want to stay in a trimmed down PSAC).
                                Outside of this board ... few people could even name the member schools in the PSAC. That includes PSAC students. Yes, Shepherd is 'out of state' ... but geographically ... barely. There's no chance they get kicked out.

                                Comment

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