PASSHE Institutions Merging

[boatcapt]

The state doesn't own Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln, or any of the community colleges. It just gives them an annual allowance. They can't force anything. They can't even force them to fall under the open records law. The state can force PASSHE to do anything because they're all owned by the state. That's the end of the story.

The state owns a 15th college, Thaddeus Stevens, but they're not under the PASSHE umbrella for some reason. It's all stupid. There should be a state board that sets policy & oversight & coordination for everything state funded in higher ed. But this is Pennsylvania.

My understanding is that in exchange for the state funding, PSU, Pitt, Temple & Lincoln offer PA students an in-state tuition rate...In the case of PSU, that takes the tuition from $36,000 to $18,500 for PA students. Also, the governor appoints members of the Board of Trustees at each of these schools. In the case of PSU, the governor directly appoints six of the 38 member Board of Trustees and the board also includes the state Secretary of Education, Secretary of Agreculture and Secretary of Conservation & Natural Resources as voting members. That's a pretty signifigant voting block directly and in-directly appointed by the Governor.

[Fightingscot82]

My understanding is that in exchange for the state funding, PSU, Pitt, Temple & Lincoln offer PA students an in-state tuition rate...In the case of PSU, that takes the tuition from $36,000 to $18,500 for PA students. Also, the governor appoints members of the Board of Trustees at each of these schools. In the case of PSU, the governor directly appoints six of the 38 member Board of Trustees and the board also includes the state Secretary of Education, Secretary of Agreculture and Secretary of Conservation & Natural Resources as voting members. That's a pretty signifigant voting block directly and in-directly appointed by the Governor.

Yes but alumni can also elect trustees. PASSHE can't. All school trustees and system board members are appointed by the governor or the state legislature and they have to be a PA resident. So we have absolutely no direct say in how our universities are run. I served two terms as president of my school's alumni association and I can tell you that any dissent with school leadership isn't tolerated.

[WarriorVoice]

The state doesn't own Penn State, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln, or any of the community colleges. It just gives them an annual allowance. They can't force anything. They can't even force them to fall under the open records law. The state can force PASSHE to do anything because they're all owned by the state. That's the end of the story.

The state owns a 15th college, Thaddeus Stevens, but they're not under the PASSHE umbrella for some reason. It's all stupid. There should be a state board that sets policy & oversight & coordination for everything state funded in higher ed. But this is Pennsylvania.

Where did I write that Penn State is OWNED by the State of PA?! I listed them as "State-related". Read the post correctly...

[Fightingscot82]

Where did I write that Penn State is OWNED by the State of PA?! I listed them as "State-related". Read the post correctly...

You're right, I didn't finish my point. Since the state doesn't own anything other than PASSHE and Thaddeus Stevens, they can't force consolidations. That allowance metaphor is very real - once we give our kids $100 bucks we can't control what they spend it on. Same for higher ed - when we give these schools their millions, the state can't control how they use it. Remember that reporting their top 5 earners was a compromise over Joe Paterno's salary. That makes their reporting even lower than what is included in the annual federal tax filing for all private universities.

Reported over the weekend, Pitt is building new science buildings at the Bradford and Greensburg outlet stores.

[complaint_hopeful]

It's kind of funny that the state 'owns' the PASSHE schools since it only partially funds them at a woefully inadequate level. I keep saying it, but that's the major issue in this all.

Could the schools be ran better? Sure. But, the funding is the major issue and making some tweaks here and there at the schools won't overcome that.

[complaint_hopeful]

You're right, I didn't finish my point. Since the state doesn't own anything other than PASSHE and Thaddeus Stevens, they can't force consolidations. That allowance metaphor is very real - once we give our kids $100 bucks we can't control what they spend it on. Same for higher ed - when we give these schools their millions, the state can't control how they use it. Remember that reporting their top 5 earners was a compromise over Joe Paterno's salary. That makes their reporting even lower than what is included in the annual federal tax filing for all private universities.

Reported over the weekend, Pitt is building new science buildings at the Bradford and Greensburg outlet stores.

Yep. A new building on any PASSHE campus isn't going to be a competitive advantage as many other schools build them too. It's kind of a wash.

The reasons students pick a college are pretty clearly outlined in these threads, and for PASSHE...cost is a BIG part of it.

I'll go as far as to predict this: IF the Triads show a profit on paper, then they are pulling online students from the other PASSHE Universities at a high percentage and you'll see other schools start to decline.

[Fightingscot82]

It's kind of funny that the state 'owns' the PASSHE schools since it only partially funds them at a woefully inadequate level. I keep saying it, but that's the major issue in this all.

Could the schools be ran better? Sure. But, the funding is the major issue and making some tweaks here and there at the schools won't overcome that.

They own them because they bought them out of state-related status 100 years ago. But yeah they don't fund them very well. Its a combination of better governance/oversight and better funding. Better governance/oversight could ensure that better funding is put to its best use. But then you can't appoint a politically-connected grocery store heiress to run the system board.

[Fightingscot82]

Yep. A new building on any PASSHE campus isn't going to be a competitive advantage as many other schools build them too. It's kind of a wash.

The reasons students pick a college are pretty clearly outlined in these threads, and for PASSHE...cost is a BIG part of it.

I don't know how accurate this is - but a VP of Enrollment that I know pretty well said all you really need are well-maintained academic buildings that don't look too dated if you have some great "wow" buildings that are features of the admissions process: admissions office/visitors center, student center, and at least one new/nice dorm. If you do open houses and big events in your arena/fieldhouse, then that has to look new/updated. That's it. Everything else is effort.

[complaint_hopeful]

They own them because they bought them out of state-related status 100 years ago. But yeah they don't fund them very well. Its a combination of better governance/oversight and better funding. Better governance/oversight could ensure that better funding is put to its best use. But then you can't appoint a politically-connected grocery store heiress to run the system board.

Yep. PASSHE just kind of exists. I fear that all of these Integrations will lead to more shrinking state funding at some future point. With 4 less schools, they may decide to fund it differently.

I feel like if it were funded at an adequate level, then the board doesn't matter and it's much easier to govern and mistakes aren't as magnified. Like maybe your marketing campaign isn't great...and you're pulling in less students because of it. But, you're still making a profit because of funding. But, when that funding is low, ineffective marketing crushes you. Same with a number of other things.

I, along with some others also wonder how long Greenstein will stay here. Is he going to leave in a year or 2? While I'm against the Integrations, once they get voted in that's the course of action. And IF he were to leave, well I don't see too many other people who are going to do what he is doing. The governance now is basically...to follow the Chancellor's lead.

[complaint_hopeful]

I don't know how accurate this is - but a VP of Enrollment that I know pretty well said all you really need are well-maintained academic buildings that don't look too dated if you have some great "wow" buildings that are features of the admissions process: admissions office/visitors center, student center, and at least one new/nice dorm. If you do open houses and big events in your arena/fieldhouse, then that has to look new/updated. That's it. Everything else is effort.

While I'm not in Admissions/Marketing...that on the surface sounds accurate to me.

[boatcapt]

It's kind of funny that the state 'owns' the PASSHE schools since it only partially funds them at a woefully inadequate level. I keep saying it, but that's the major issue in this all.

Could the schools be ran better? Sure. But, the funding is the major issue and making some tweaks here and there at the schools won't overcome that.

That's how public colleges work. Their funding comes from tuition, fees, room and board, the book store, etc PLUS a portion directly from the state. If the PASSHE schools had been better in their student recruting, their budget shortage either doesn't exist OR is much smaller than now. I also note that many PASSHE students are getting some form of PA provided tuition grant or scholarship so while not a direct payment to the school from the state, it is state money that goes to the school.

[complaint_hopeful]

PASSHE has an interesting thing for some construction projects. Like some (but not all) construction, you submit a proposal to the state for a building and if it gets approved, it gets largely funded out of state funding. I've kind of wondered if...when things turned bad...why they didn't stop doing this and use the money elsewhere. I'm not really sure what all goes into getting it approved.

Now, not all construction is like that. Like I know of a student union that was renovated and student fees went up to pay for it, etc.

[complaint_hopeful]

That's how public colleges work. Their funding comes from tuition, fees, room and board, the book store, etc PLUS a portion directly from the state. If the PASSHE schools had been better in their student recruting, their budget shortage either doesn't exist OR is much smaller than now. I also note that many PASSHE students are getting some form of PA provided tuition grant or scholarship so while not a direct payment to the school from the state, it is state money that goes to the school.

So on the surface recruiting seems like an issue. But, the 2010 high was a bubble that wasn't sustainable. Probably no matter what they did, they weren't going to maintain that.

And people knew that, yet these campuses went on wile building sprees that resulted in $100's of millions of debt. I believe the West Triad has 2 schools with $100+ million debt each for instance. And yes, PASSHE and I believe the BOG had to sign off on this construction. Which is yet another example of poor governance. You need to be looking to the future and know you can't carry that debt.

Without that debt, things would be looking better now.

I do concede that these schools probably could be recruiting better than they do though. I just don't think that alone would be enough. I think the debt payments are a killer.

Another point I want to make is PA is what 47th in state funding? If you take any of the 46 above us back to their 2000 level of state funding, how many would be having similar issues? I know atleast some would have to.

The grants and other state money is interesting. The Nellie Bly scholarship falls into that. I'd be interested in hearing more about the positive impacts on enrollment? Or do you get students who were coming anyways for instance?

[boatcapt]

Yes but alumni can also elect trustees. PASSHE can't. All school trustees and system board members are appointed by the governor or the state legislature and they have to be a PA resident. So we have absolutely no direct say in how our universities are run. I served two terms as president of my school's alumni association and I can tell you that any dissent with school leadership isn't tolerated.

That was the system that was set up by the legislature and governor. 10+ years ago when enrolement was up and coffers were full, not a lot of complaining. Now that times are hard, plenty of complaining about the system.

Seems like all six alumni associations, possibly along with current student groups, should band together and lobby their local state reps and demand a situation similar to what PSU/Pitt/Temple/Lincoln have were a number of each schools Board of Trustees is elected by the alumni/current students.

[Fightingscot82]

PASSHE has an interesting thing for some construction projects. Like some (but not all) construction, you submit a proposal to the state for a building and if it gets approved, it gets largely funded out of state funding. I've kind of wondered if...when things turned bad...why they didn't stop doing this and use the money elsewhere. I'm not really sure what all goes into getting it approved.

Now, not all construction is like that. Like I know of a student union that was renovated and student fees went up to pay for it, etc.

They did. The construction happening now was approved YEARS ago. Its usually 3-5 years from application to groundbreaking. That also allows for inflation to increase the cost, which is picked up by the school.