PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Ship69]

Any group that has mandatory study halls tends to have above average GPAs. Also that whole 2.0 to play thing helps a lot.

Grade inflation is a student;s friend these days. The most common grade given at colleges these days is an "A." Colleges today are in a death race to retain students. The last thing they want to do if they can help it is academically disqualify anyone. If you have half a brain and make any sort of effort, you're unlikely to flunk out of college once you're admitted.

It's a far cry from what I was told when I attended Ship freshman indoctrination in the '60s: "Look to the left of you, look to the right of you. One of those persons will not be here in four years." And that was pretty much true.

My 3.4 GPA at Ship put me into the top five percent of the class when I graduated then. I don't know if that would even be in the top half now.

[Fightingscot82]

These days the college experience is much more than Greek life. Student-athletes are becoming the largest fraternity on many campuses. At ESU student-athletes have a better GPA than the rest of the student population.

Any group that has mandatory study halls tends to have above average GPAs. Also that whole 2.0 to play thing helps a lot.

[WarriorVoice]

I wasn't in a frat myself but many of my close friends were at Duquesne, Pitt, and Marietta. What goes on behind the scenes is crazy, especially at larger or more southern schools. My girlfriend is the President of her sorority at Clarion and its so much different from being in a frat. Being in a sorority sounds like hell tbqh. She runs everything so I hear everything, and its just piles and piles of drama mixed with lazy college girls who don't get the events and activities planned or set up. I cant tell you how many weekends Ive had to help her set up a sorority event that she wasn't supposed to have anything to do with because one of the girls on that activity committee was "feeling overwhelmed" or "had a bad week". Doesn't matter if that's the case, you gotta get it done either way, you signed up for it. Most of the time its not even true, they just didn't finish their homework or something.

Greek Life/parties at Clarion is dead because the frats are non existent, just 3 groups of 8 losers without a house to throw parties in. The sororities are boring, follow the book, and don't throw parties even though one of them has a huge house. Last year, a house full of guys tried to ignite the fire with a "fake frat" that got off the ground and people enjoyed it until the police shut down party after party after party and soon it was dead. Its just sad. If you want a real college experience, go to Pitt or Penn State.

These days the college experience is much more than Greek life. Student-athletes are becoming the largest fraternity on many campuses. At ESU student-athletes have a better GPA than the rest of the student population.

[SecretlySavage]

My fraternity experience was life altering in a positive way. Yeah there was some stupid stuff and some regrets about things we did that didn't age well, but my fraternity was probably 80% good acts and 20% frat boy stupid stuff. Done by the book, there's not an experience like it at a college. But the lack of meaningful adult advisement and the 21 drinking age created a role for many fraternities to assume the role of speakeasy for 19 year olds. Fortunately hazing is illegal in PA and may soon be a federal crime. I think most people would be shocked at the formal behind the scenes (secret) stuff that's not really any different from the local fraternal lodge in most communities.

My wife's sorority experience was very different for different reasons.

I wasn't in a frat myself but many of my close friends were at Duquesne, Pitt, and Marietta. What goes on behind the scenes is crazy, especially at larger or more southern schools. My girlfriend is the President of her sorority at Clarion and its so much different from being in a frat. Being in a sorority sounds like hell tbqh. She runs everything so I hear everything, and its just piles and piles of drama mixed with lazy college girls who don't get the events and activities planned or set up. I cant tell you how many weekends Ive had to help her set up a sorority event that she wasn't supposed to have anything to do with because one of the girls on that activity committee was "feeling overwhelmed" or "had a bad week". Doesn't matter if that's the case, you gotta get it done either way, you signed up for it. Most of the time its not even true, they just didn't finish their homework or something.

Greek Life/parties at Clarion is dead because the frats are non existent, just 3 groups of 8 losers without a house to throw parties in. The sororities are boring, follow the book, and don't throw parties even though one of them has a huge house. Last year, a house full of guys tried to ignite the fire with a "fake frat" that got off the ground and people enjoyed it until the police shut down party after party after party and soon it was dead. Its just sad. If you want a real college experience, go to Pitt or Penn State.

[Fightingscot82]

My fraternity experience was life altering in a positive way. Yeah there was some stupid stuff and some regrets about things we did that didn't age well, but my fraternity was probably 80% good acts and 20% frat boy stupid stuff. Done by the book, there's not an experience like it at a college. But the lack of meaningful adult advisement and the 21 drinking age created a role for many fraternities to assume the role of speakeasy for 19 year olds. Fortunately hazing is illegal in PA and may soon be a federal crime. I think most people would be shocked at the formal behind the scenes (secret) stuff that's not really any different from the local fraternal lodge in most communities.

My wife's sorority experience was very different for different reasons.

[SecretlySavage]

The IUP frat houses on Wayne Ave back in the day all looked like multiple code violations…almost unlivable.

The hazing is childish.

Again I saw no point….

I agree with all of the above, but its also a fact of the matter that groups of young men that get into man made debauchery will create an atmosphere of parties and fun that college kids crave. Having an atmosphere that students like will grow the student body, which will in turn help these schools. So I do agree that Greek Life is one of the dumbest things a person can sign up for, but its no doubt that the parties you can go to are worth it. Not to mention that frats often go out to bars when they don't throw parties, keeping the bar scene active too. It just makes sense, you cant have a college without Greek Life.

[IUPNation]

I'm old and have no idea about what the Greek experience is these days. When I was going to school there was a lot of hazing involved in pledging. I was an undersized and socially awkward guy my first couple of years in high school and took plenty of crap there, so I had no desire to take more b.s. in college. I couldn't care less if someone else wants to join a frat or sorority. It's up to them. It appears to work for some people, not so much for others. And when hazing gets to the point where people are actually being physically of psychologically harmed it needs to cease immediately.

The IUP frat houses on Wayne Ave back in the day all looked like multiple code violations…almost unlivable.

The hazing is childish.

Again I saw no point….

[Ship69]

Greek Life to me is paying for friends and living in a death trap frat house.

I didn’t see the point.

I'm old and have no idea about what the Greek experience is these days. When I was going to school there was a lot of hazing involved in pledging. I was an undersized and socially awkward guy my first couple of years in high school and took plenty of crap there, so I had no desire to take more b.s. in college. I couldn't care less if someone else wants to join a frat or sorority. It's up to them. It appears to work for some people, not so much for others. And when hazing gets to the point where people are actually being physically of psychologically harmed it needs to cease immediately.

[IUPNation]

Greek Life to me is paying for friends and living in a death trap frat house.

I didn’t see the point.

[Fightingscot82]

Trying to get rid of Greek Life is kind of wild imo. Schools should lean into the Greek Life vibe a big harder imo. Students come to college for the experience, otherwise they would do online, and a part of that experience is parties and running amok with friends, both things that Greek Life is good at.

Bloomsburg had a death. I get the need for big action. But all the power he had was removing them from funding, campus room reservations, Homecoming, etc. First Amendment allows freedom of association and Bloomsburg is an extention of the government. He couldn't punish students for joining or other groups from doing things with Greek Life. A bunch of the national groups just kept operating off campus. Then when the merger happened, suddenly you have 2 of 3 campuses with Greek Life. Bloomsburg wasted almost $100k in consulting fees on how to eliminate Greek Life and how to bring it back.

[SecretlySavage]

Yes my opinion of Hanna has grown tremendously through this. He's also made some very short-sighted decisions at Bloom (like attempting to "get rid" of Greek Life when legally they can't stop students from joining anything) but he's very strong. Commonwealth hasn't had nearly a complete turnover in executive leadership like Penn West, which was part of the three individual schools' problem. Every academic Dean and every VP position except for I think 2 have left since the process begun. They can't enroll students and don't have a Director of Admissions.

Trying to get rid of Greek Life is kind of wild imo. Schools should lean into the Greek Life vibe a big harder imo. Students come to college for the experience, otherwise they would do online, and a part of that experience is parties and running amok with friends, both things that Greek Life is good at.

[SecretlySavage]

Ok, I see what you're saying. You are focusing on the"academic array" and I was looking at the bigger picture. I remember reading the plan for Commonwealth when it came out but I didn't do the same for Penn West. I do know that Penn West is comprised of 3 very similar schools in their offerings. LHU and Bloom were also very similar but for every viable field of study, they designated one school as the dominant school while the other school would mostly be dependent on the dominant school for the classes online, with the exception of certain courses that were better off offered in each location. That plan was a big change. The article describes generally the cutting-edge way the remote classes are delivered. Is Penn West using the same technology? Perhaps, but the article isn't about Penn West. I will also add that I wasn't a fan of Hanna, having been kicked out of two previous positions due to sexual harassment including one at a PASSHE school but I think he's an ace administrator and probably the right person for the job. He is really the primary implementor of Greenstein's ideas. I suspect the administration of Commonwealth is a lot better than Penn West's and that is partly based on things you have said about Penn West.

It give me solace knowing that this was the plan for the school mergers, as they did the same thing with Clarion. I think its ludicrous to think that these schools will survive when they tell students they can take any classes and any major, only to find out its all going to be online and provided by a different school. Its just not gonna work imo. I'm glad Commonwealth is very up to date with remote classes but I know Clarion is not cutting edge, and I doubt that the rest of PennWest is either. Administration at PennWest has been a revolving door, with leadership coming and going and 1000 IQ super smart asses from out east coming over to "help", things don't look good. Makes me happy to see Commonwealth succeed, but PennWest has fumbled the bag hard.

[Fightingscot82]

Ok, I see what you're saying. You are focusing on the"academic array" and I was looking at the bigger picture. I remember reading the plan for Commonwealth when it came out but I didn't do the same for Penn West. I do know that Penn West is comprised of 3 very similar schools in their offerings. LHU and Bloom were also very similar but for every viable field of study, they designated one school as the dominant school while the other school would mostly be dependent on the dominant school for the classes online, with the exception of certain courses that were better off offered in each location. That plan was a big change. The article describes generally the cutting-edge way the remote classes are delivered. Is Penn West using the same technology? Perhaps, but the article isn't about Penn West. I will also add that I wasn't a fan of Hanna, having been kicked out of two previous positions due to sexual harassment including one at a PASSHE school but I think he's an ace administrator and probably the right person for the job. He is really the primary implementor of Greenstein's ideas. I suspect the administration of Commonwealth is a lot better than Penn West's and that is partly based on things you have said about Penn West.

Yes my opinion of Hanna has grown tremendously through this. He's also made some very short-sighted decisions at Bloom (like attempting to "get rid" of Greek Life when legally they can't stop students from joining anything) but he's very strong. Commonwealth hasn't had nearly a complete turnover in executive leadership like Penn West, which was part of the three individual schools' problem. Every academic Dean and every VP position except for I think 2 have left since the process begun. They can't enroll students and don't have a Director of Admissions.

[iupgroundhog]

But that's not really what they're saying they did here. It sounds like they "simply" combined all departments, degree programs, and course catalogs. To me that's the academic array. I could be wrong.

Ok, I see what you're saying. You are focusing on the"academic array" and I was looking at the bigger picture. I remember reading the plan for Commonwealth when it came out but I didn't do the same for Penn West. I do know that Penn West is comprised of 3 very similar schools in their offerings. LHU and Bloom were also very similar but for every viable field of study, they designated one school as the dominant school while the other school would mostly be dependent on the dominant school for the classes online, with the exception of certain courses that were better off offered in each location. That plan was a big change. The article describes generally the cutting-edge way the remote classes are delivered. Is Penn West using the same technology? Perhaps, but the article isn't about Penn West. I will also add that I wasn't a fan of Hanna, having been kicked out of two previous positions due to sexual harassment including one at a PASSHE school but I think he's an ace administrator and probably the right person for the job. He is really the primary implementor of Greenstein's ideas. I suspect the administration of Commonwealth is a lot better than Penn West's and that is partly based on things you have said about Penn West.

[Fightingscot82]

Yeah, it's a very generic release. You don't know what they did differently than Penn West? I can't believe you typed that. It's a different scheme that has been articulated since day one. Penn West was to have the online focus and Commonwealth was to have the focus of being integrated with the regional labor market and needs. With those two manifestos, it's easy to figure out which one will be more successful.

But that's not really what they're saying they did here. It sounds like they "simply" combined all departments, degree programs, and course catalogs. To me that's the academic array. I could be wrong.