PASSHE Institutions Merging

[iupgroundhog]

For the overwhelming majority of schools, it doesn't matter where you go academically. Its the environment that should be your best match and brings out the best. But an offer to play a sport at one of the also-ran schools in this category gets kids in the door. If not for the recruiting effort, they're not going to Nowhere State University of Pennsylvania or McDingleberry College. So a small college like Hiram can pay a golf coach $25,000 a year and maybe another $25,000 in expenses and for $50,000 can bring in 12-15 tuition paying students who never would have been attending Hiram. Suddenly the net revenue increases surpass the expenses, especially at schools where nearly every student lives on campus at least a year or two. Now do that for women's golf, women's wrestling, water polo, pickleball, flip cup, etc.

What I am saying is that in an extreme case like the cited Hiram College that is wrong.

[Fightingscot82]

What I am saying is that in an extreme case like the cited Hiram College that is wrong.

That is basically the D2 and D3 private college model. Its why most private schools have much larger athletic departments and odd fringe sports public schools do not have.

[iupgroundhog]

That is basically the D2 and D3 private college model. Its why most private schools have much larger athletic departments and odd fringe sports public schools do not have.

I'm still saying it's wrong.

[Fightingscot82]

I'm still saying it's wrong.

I'll disagree - but do think it tricks students into attending schools that aren't a good fit for them because they're chasing athletics over everything else. That could change what major they can study, attending a school with a faith tradition that's not their own, a location or culture that's not a good fit, etc. Above all, they'll often pay more for the D3 private school than they would have at a public D2, and that's the real shame. Yeah, you could start 3 of 4 years at St. Vincent but you'll end up paying $25k more for that degree than from IUP.

[Ship69]

I'm still saying it's wrong.

What it is basically is a business model to keep the school going. I can understand why they do it, but I mostly agree with you that it's wrong. Higher education began to slip in this country when students became viewed as clients in a business partnership with the school rather than students. One of the many reasons college has become so expensive these days is the lengths (fancy dorms, new athletic facilities, fast food on campus, more expensive meals, etc., etc.) colleges go to in the increasing competition for a declining number of students. Bottom line is there are plenty of students in college today who shouldn't be there, but given the circumstances, the financial bottom lines, and human nature, I don't see that changing.

[iupgroundhog]

What it is basically is a business model to keep the school going. I can understand why they do it, but I mostly agree with you that it's wrong. Higher education began to slip in this country when students became viewed as clients in a business partnership with the school rather than students. One of the many reasons college has become so expensive these days is the lengths (fancy dorms, new athletic facilities, fast food on campus, more expensive meals, etc., etc.) colleges go to in the increasing competition for a declining number of students. Bottom line is there are plenty of students in college today who shouldn't be there, but given the circumstances, the financial bottom lines, and human nature, I don't see that changing.

I used the word "wrong" but that is a value judgment. Let's just say I am not fond of that model.

[boatcapt]

What it is basically is a business model to keep the school going. I can understand why they do it, but I mostly agree with you that it's wrong. Higher education began to slip in this country when students became viewed as clients in a business partnership with the school rather than students. One of the many reasons college has become so expensive these days is the lengths (fancy dorms, new athletic facilities, fast food on campus, more expensive meals, etc., etc.) colleges go to in the increasing competition for a declining number of students. Bottom line is there are plenty of students in college today who shouldn't be there, but given the circumstances, the financial bottom lines, and human nature, I don't see that changing.

Often overlooked in the spiraling cost of college is that "administrative bloat" that has effected every college. The administrative staff at colleges is up almost 200% since 1976 and that's just the raw number of bodies with the cost of those bodies up even more.

Them that can't do teach...those that can't teach administrate. And they are WELL paid for it!!!

We are quick to demand schools be closed because they try and drive up enrollment by recruiting athletes but we never criticize a school for their out of control administrative spending.

[Fightingscot82]

Often overlooked in the spiraling cost of college is that "administrative bloat" that has effected every college. The administrative staff at colleges is up almost 200% since 1976 and that's just the raw number of bodies with the cost of those bodies up even more.

Them that can't do teach...those that can't teach administrate. And they are WELL paid for it!!!

We are quick to demand schools be closed because they try and drive up enrollment by recruiting athletes but we never criticize a school for their out of control administrative spending.

I've spoken about this before - but colleges and universities have changed quite a bit in the last 50 years. They used to just be schools with some programs and activities but now are multifaceted enterprises. They're a human capital industry much like health care and employees are expensive. A lot of staff positions used to rely on frequent turnover and very low compensation that is no longer competitive or in the best interest (especially with frequent turnover). People are no longer willing to be worked like a dog.

Some things every college now must have that didn't exist in 1976:
- Employee benefits (no health insurance, EAP, etc. in 1976)\
- Information technology: network, computers, proprietary software, etc.
- Government regulation compliance work: EEO, AA, Title IX, Drug Free Schools, federal/state hazing laws, state regulations, new Trump admin federal regulations changing every 48 hours
- Legal consultation
- Liability insurance
- Alumni relations staff & programs
- Fundraising staff & programs
- Accounting, payroll, & purchasing (have to pay accountant rates)
- Internal assessment & research (mostly related to the government work)
- Academic advising & coaching to improve enrollment & graduation
- Career services & coaching
- Disability services & ADA accommodations
- Facilities risk management & response
- Health centers
- Parking & ID services
- Marketing, advertising, internal/external communication, etc. (includes socials)

Some things that aren't necessary but are now standard:
- Full time athletic coaches (no teaching requirement)
- Programming to engage alumni, parents, families, students, etc.
- Police departments (instead of security)
- Living wages for entry level staff instead of offering low salary plus free housing
- Proprietary SAS systems to do the work securely, peerlessly, and efficiently. They're freaking expensive. Paperless student records systems (just registration, grades, etc) are $150k/year
- Admissions recruiters for transfers & grad programs
- Staff overseeing high risk student areas like housing, Greek Life, club sports, intramurals, etc.
- Camp & conference sales & support
- Fitness centers, club sports, etc.

Bloat may not be the right word, but the expansion of colleges and universities beyond just teaching & learning into comprehensive enterprises is crazy.

[TheBigCat2192]

Often overlooked in the spiraling cost of college is that "administrative bloat" that has effected every college. The administrative staff at colleges is up almost 200% since 1976 and that's just the raw number of bodies with the cost of those bodies up even more.

Them that can't do teach...those that can't teach administrate. And they are WELL paid for it!!!

We are quick to demand schools be closed because they try and drive up enrollment by recruiting athletes but we never criticize a school for their out of control administrative spending.

I don’t think anyone has overlooked administrative bloat in the cost of college given that people have been saying this for at least 10 years if not longer.

[Ship69]

Often overlooked in the spiraling cost of college is that "administrative bloat" that has effected every college. The administrative staff at colleges is up almost 200% since 1976 and that's just the raw number of bodies with the cost of those bodies up even more.

Them that can't do teach...those that can't teach administrate. And they are WELL paid for it!!!

We are quick to demand schools be closed because they try and drive up enrollment by recruiting athletes but we never criticize a school for their out of control administrative spending.

Most of the PASSHE colleges have been cutting staff, including administration, in recent years. They managed to hold tuition the same for the past several years, and have proposed a relatively modest increase this year, which might be rebated depending on the actions of the state legislature.

[boatcapt]

I've spoken about this before - but colleges and universities have changed quite a bit in the last 50 years. They used to just be schools with some programs and activities but now are multifaceted enterprises. They're a human capital industry much like health care and employees are expensive. A lot of staff positions used to rely on frequent turnover and very low compensation that is no longer competitive or in the best interest (especially with frequent turnover). People are no longer willing to be worked like a dog.

Some things every college now must have that didn't exist in 1976:
- Employee benefits (no health insurance, EAP, etc. in 1976)\
- Information technology: network, computers, proprietary software, etc.
- Government regulation compliance work: EEO, AA, Title IX, Drug Free Schools, federal/state hazing laws, state regulations, new Trump admin federal regulations changing every 48 hours
- Legal consultation
- Liability insurance
- Alumni relations staff & programs
- Fundraising staff & programs
- Accounting, payroll, & purchasing (have to pay accountant rates)
- Internal assessment & research (mostly related to the government work)
- Academic advising & coaching to improve enrollment & graduation
- Career services & coaching
- Disability services & ADA accommodations
- Facilities risk management & response
- Health centers
- Parking & ID services
- Marketing, advertising, internal/external communication, etc. (includes socials)

Some things that aren't necessary but are now standard:
- Full time athletic coaches (no teaching requirement)
- Programming to engage alumni, parents, families, students, etc.
- Police departments (instead of security)
- Living wages for entry level staff instead of offering low salary plus free housing
- Proprietary SAS systems to do the work securely, peerlessly, and efficiently. They're freaking expensive. Paperless student records systems (just registration, grades, etc) are $150k/year
- Admissions recruiters for transfers & grad programs
- Staff overseeing high risk student areas like housing, Greek Life, club sports, intramurals, etc.
- Camp & conference sales & support
- Fitness centers, club sports, etc.

Bloat may not be the right word, but the expansion of colleges and universities beyond just teaching & learning into comprehensive enterprises is crazy.

So the schools have changed their programs, staff (both academic and administrative) payments and regulatory compliance, yet we critisize them and say they "should close" when they seek to get more students (and tuition/R&B) by increasing the number of students participating in intercollegiate athletics. Seems like many colleges have become little more than industries for the local economy were most of the "locals" work at, on or in businesses directly related to the local state college. Seems to be OK to have the major chunk of your local workforce tied up in the school but when the school ups their population by bring in more tuition paying athletes, THAT is a bridge too far.

[Ship69]

So the schools have changed their programs, staff (both academic and administrative) payments and regulatory compliance, yet we critisize them and say they "should close" when they seek to get more students (and tuition/R&B) by increasing the number of students participating in intercollegiate athletics. Seems like many colleges have become little more than industries for the local economy were most of the "locals" work at, on or in businesses directly related to the local state college. Seems to be OK to have the major chunk of your local workforce tied up in the school but when the school ups their population by bring in more tuition paying athletes, THAT is a bridge too far.

Well, I'm pretty sure that doesn't describe my university. I'll leave it to you whether it describes yours.

[IUPNation]

West Chester is adding campus housing….

https://montco.today/2025/08/west-ch...box=1754415683

[Fightingscot82]

West Chester is adding campus housing….

https://montco.today/2025/08/west-ch...box=1754415683

They're planning for the influx from the competition failing and closing.

For so long, PASSHE schools were "ehh I guess I'll go there" schools of equal mediocrity. Now there are clear winners and losers. While some campuses are struggling to find students and have those students live on campus, others are over 100% capacity and finding ways to cram more students into the buildings by converting common spaces to rooms or putting 3 students in a room that used to house 2 students.

[Fightingscot82]

Valley Forge Military Academy is next to close