PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

What I've found is that people who refer to "boomers" negatively, just based on being a boomer, usually have no idea what "boomer" means.

Oh I'm familiar as a Gen Xer.

[IUPNation]

"No matter how you get here or where you end up, human beings have this miraculous gift to make that place home."

Creed Bratton

Lol.

The cold showers sucked!!

Surprisingly that was never an issue for the 3 years I lived in Oakland Hall. Bathrooms were always clean too..

[Bart]

So did Gen X and getting hot water for a shower was never guaranteed either.

Esch Hall was 13 years old when I moved there in 1984 and it was the college dorm version of tenement living.

"No matter how you get here or where you end up, human beings have this miraculous gift to make that place home."

Creed Bratton

[IUPNation]

So now it's the "Right Boomer" thing? Whatever. As a boomer I shared restroom facilities with the 49 other guys in my dorm corridor.

So did Gen X and getting hot water for a shower was never guaranteed either.

Esch Hall was 13 years old when I moved there in 1984 and it was the college dorm version of tenement living.

[iupgroundhog]

So now it's the "Right Boomer" thing? Whatever. As a boomer I shared restroom facilities with the 49 other guys in my dorm corridor.

What I've found is that people who refer to "boomers" negatively, just based on being a boomer, usually have no idea what "boomer" means.

[Ship69]

Just want to emphasize the bold. That's all.

So now it's the "Right Boomer" thing? Whatever. As a boomer I shared restroom facilities with the 49 other guys in my dorm corridor.

[Fightingscot82]

Necessary?

Yep. Average debt for a long undergraduate is $33,000 and change. On a 10 year repayment that's about $700 a month. That means for every kid whose parents pay the full freight there's someone who had to borrow over $60k. But Lean Six Sigma and Black Belt doesn't support paying an attractive wage and it also cuts into the quarterly dividend for the board.

[Horror Child]

Then you should be posting a salary range. You get fewer applicants but then you waste less time. If my career path didn't require extensive background checks and clearances, there would have been a few job searches that ended in me punching the hiring manager because we wasted so much of my time and they had an unrealistic salary. And I work in a field that takes some extensive experience to make six figures. If you want to require a college degree for an entry level job, be prepared to pay enough considering the student loan debt necessary to earn that degree.

My favorite exercise is telling Boomers and Gen Xers who spoiled their kids. They did!

Necessary?

[boatcapt]

Then you should be posting a salary range. You get fewer applicants but then you waste less time. If my career path didn't require extensive background checks and clearances, there would have been a few job searches that ended in me punching the hiring manager because we wasted so much of my time and they had an unrealistic salary. And I work in a field that takes some extensive experience to make six figures. If you want to require a college degree for an entry level job, be prepared to pay enough considering the student loan debt necessary to earn that degree.

My favorite exercise is telling Boomers and Gen Xers who spoiled their kids. They did!

Oh the starting salary range was well published. But I guess that they didn't think it really applied to them.

[Fightingscot82]

I would note that the students that vote for no increases in student fees but still want the Disney Grand level amenities are not boomers, they are Generation Z which is often referred to as the entitled generation.

You want a fun exercise, interview a Gen Z for an entry level position and ask them what their minimum salary requirements are!!!! ALWAYS good for a laugh!

Then you should be posting a salary range. You get fewer applicants but then you waste less time. If my career path didn't require extensive background checks and clearances, there would have been a few job searches that ended in me punching the hiring manager because we wasted so much of my time and they had an unrealistic salary. And I work in a field that takes some extensive experience to make six figures. If you want to require a college degree for an entry level job, be prepared to pay enough considering the student loan debt necessary to earn that degree.

My favorite exercise is telling Boomers and Gen Xers who spoiled their kids. They did!

[boatcapt]

Just want to emphasize the bold. That's all.

I would note that the students that vote for no increases in student fees but still want the Disney Grand level amenities are not boomers, they are Generation Z which is often referred to as the entitled generation.

You want a fun exercise, interview a Gen Z for an entry level position and ask them what their minimum salary requirements are!!!! ALWAYS good for a laugh!

[Fightingscot82]

The governor has said that they won't be getting rid of local leadership at the community colleges. I don't think enough of his actual plan is out there to make a final determination. As PASSHE continues to hold the line on tuition, the schools begin to look more and more attractive. More funding from the state would obviously help. If state support for PASSHE dips much lower as a percentage, you might as well give them a "state-related" tag along with Penn State, Pitt, etc. With its outsized influence in Harrisburg, Penn State has succeeded in undermining PASSHE to a great extent with the branch campus system. Our president at Ship has remarked how decentralized the system in Pa. seems compared to the one he worked with in Georgia.

As far as a Ship-Millersvllle merger, I think things would have to get much worse before either school would consider that.

And I'm probably spitting into the wind, but if we've come to the point where college is considered a glorified vo-tech school, we've lost much of the purpose of a college education.

All it takes is another downturn for one of the two schools to run out of reserve cash. That's what really drove the mergers. By and large, Cheyney has been absorbed by West Chester. Nearly all non-student facing functions are run by West Chester.

[Ram040506]

YES. Everyone thought they could grow and sustain the demographic peak of 2010. Everyone. And nobody at the state level called BS. Like Homer Simpson supervising at the nuclear power plant.

All the Boomers thought shiny new buildings and everyone getting their own bedroom was the solution. Cost didn't matter because until then students just borrowed their way to the college experience of their dreams. Then the recession happened and the mortgage bubble burst. Those kids who grew up through that realized the price and debt with college was stupid and started openly questioning costs. Near unanimous votes for fee increases by students came to an end. They still want all those amenities like its a Disney Grand Indianan Resort but they still want the Clarion State College price.

The other big issue is that most of the struggling schools never adapted their degree programs to the evolving demand. The reasons Slippery Rock and to lesser degrees IUP, Shippensburg, Lock Haven, and Kutztown are stable is because they have many of the job-ready degree programs students now want. The applied science, tech, health,, pre-professional, etc. A quick Google search will show schools across the country and of all shapes and sizes are cutting traditional liberal arts degree programs. Students no longer choose majors based on their favorite high school class. They choose a job that is attractive then backtrack to identify degree programs that lead to the specific job.

Just want to emphasize the bold. That's all.

[boatcapt]

Makes sense lol

BRAC (Base closures) was a DIFFICULT time in the military and in military communities across the nation but it had to be done. As the saying goes, the military had "excess capacity" and needed to be downsized. Same thing is playing out across most states now with regard to colleges and universities. Excess capacity to needs...difference is that quite a few states are refusing to bite the bullet and right size their public university system instead trying to find ways to keep everything open. At the end of the day states have to ask a fundamental question, is it better to have 4, 5 or 6 schools that are strong and relatively self sustaining or is it better to have 12, 13 or 14 colleges that stumble along and are constantly in financial peril?

[Ship69]

I might be pessimistic, But things are pretty bad. I agree There will be some small privates close too.

There will probably still be institutions named the same name as the current PASSHE schools, but the governor is moving to lump the universities in with community colleges, and get rid of alot of the local leadership. At some point this will cause any outside support to dry up - donors want a say in the management of schools they donate too. Things like Sports scholarship money goes away completely then, and any unique nature of the school disappears, no traditional college experience, or sense of identity. What the governor is doing is smart in a way, he's shifting the revenue generating classes to the community colleges to make them much more efficient, with the less expensive faculty - essentially breaking the Union without saying that you did. If the Universities can run good majors programs independently without a loss, they will remain, but most probably won't be able to - it will be a survival of the fittest scenario. BTW WCU has done this already with adjuncts, and CC feeder schools. Then the Union went on strike over Adjunct use and pay, and won. So that is part of what drove this.

and so I'd guess there will be still be for instance a Penn West, but it will be on the same order as Allegheny County CC. The number of Majors at the weaker schools will be reduced as well. Some students will go to the remaining Passhe schools, but the PSU branches will get alot of them as well. As will the Pitt Branches. I'd bet we end up with WCU in the east, Rock in the west. Bloom and maybe a Ship/millersville merger. IUP will have to get its act together to stay out of becoming part of Penn West - I'd say its 50/50 right now.

The governor has said that they won't be getting rid of local leadership at the community colleges. I don't think enough of his actual plan is out there to make a final determination. As PASSHE continues to hold the line on tuition, the schools begin to look more and more attractive. More funding from the state would obviously help. If state support for PASSHE dips much lower as a percentage, you might as well give them a "state-related" tag along with Penn State, Pitt, etc. With its outsized influence in Harrisburg, Penn State has succeeded in undermining PASSHE to a great extent with the branch campus system. Our president at Ship has remarked how decentralized the system in Pa. seems compared to the one he worked with in Georgia.

As far as a Ship-Millersvllle merger, I think things would have to get much worse before either school would consider that.

And I'm probably spitting into the wind, but if we've come to the point where college is considered a glorified vo-tech school, we've lost much of the purpose of a college education.