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  • I've looked at the approved PA State Budget for the last few years and if I'm reading it right, it doesn't look like the PASSHE budget has been cut over the last 10 years. By year, the PASSHE budget has been:

    2020 $477.47M (% change from previous year 0%)
    2019 $477.47M (+2%)
    2018 $468.108M (+3.3%)
    2017 $453.108M (+2%)
    2016 $444.224M (+2.5%)
    2015 $433.389M (+5%)
    2014 $412.751M (0%)
    2013 $412.751M (0%)
    2012 $412.751M (0%)
    2011 $412.751M

    So if I'm right, PASSHE budget has increased 15.7% over the last 10 years with all of that coming in the last six years. Note that during the same time period the PA State budget as a whole decreased by over 5%.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
      I've looked at the approved PA State Budget for the last few years and if I'm reading it right, it doesn't look like the PASSHE budget has been cut over the last 10 years. By year, the PASSHE budget has been:

      2020 $477.47M (% change from previous year 0%)
      2019 $477.47M (+2%)
      2018 $468.108M (+3.3%)
      2017 $453.108M (+2%)
      2016 $444.224M (+2.5%)
      2015 $433.389M (+5%)
      2014 $412.751M (0%)
      2013 $412.751M (0%)
      2012 $412.751M (0%)
      2011 $412.751M

      So if I'm right, PASSHE budget has increased 15.7% over the last 10 years with all of that coming in the last six years. Note that during the same time period the PA State budget as a whole decreased by over 5%.
      What is the point? These numbers might be accurate but they are also taken out of context. PA is 48th out of 50 states in funding higher education. That is pitiful. Also, the decline in funding has taken place over a 30 year period. Even if the $$ remain the same from one year to the next it hasn't kept up with the cost of the education and that's the problem.

      All this shows is that during a Republican administration under Corbett the budget stayed at the same level (too low) but when a Democrat (Wolf) took over the subsidy rose every year. That is the same trend as you'll find if you go back before Corbett to Democrat Rendell. Rendell also increased the funding. It's always the same story.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

        We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

        I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.
        It would have been uphill, the assumption was that the schools would receive state money, like the other state related schools, but the split would have changed the costly and difficult state regulations with regard to purchasing, HR, contracts, hiring, and more. The advantage the state supported schools have in these areas is pretty significant. Just the prevailing wage law cost the university millions. The gaming of the sometimes unfair funding formulas the state used also ended up costing more than they gained. They have rolled pack some things recently, but not near enough.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

          What is the point? These numbers might be accurate but they are also taken out of context. PA is 48th out of 50 states in funding higher education. That is pitiful. Also, the decline in funding has taken place over a 30 year period. Even if the $$ remain the same from one year to the next it hasn't kept up with the cost of the education and that's the problem.

          All this shows is that during a Republican administration under Corbett the budget stayed at the same level (too low) but when a Democrat (Wolf) took over the subsidy rose every year. That is the same trend as you'll find if you go back before Corbett to Democrat Rendell. Rendell also increased the funding. It's always the same story.
          Not making any particular point. Just showing that the PASSHE budget has not been cut and has actually gone up.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

            Not making any particular point. Just showing that the PASSHE budget has not been cut and has actually gone up.
            The budget has gone up and the revenue has gone way down. Not a good combination.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

              We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

              I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.
              I feel like they've been lobbying the state for years for increased subsidy...but it keeps going down a lot of years or just up slightly. The stat about how we're among the lowest in state funding in the US is pretty telling.

              Just a gut feel, but I feel like not many lawmakers in PA went to State Schools. They went to the Pitt's, Penn State's, Temple's, and Villanova's. Obviously this isn't 100%, but in general. I feel like they view state schools as filled with fat cat employees getting rich off of the taxpayer dime. Obviously that's not accurate either. I feel like some of the public Union vs Management battles put these perceptions out there in kind of a collateral damage way. So they aren't going to increase funding.

              Now once Greenstein accomplishes his plan and drastically trims the fat and goes way beyond that...the state may start increasing funding if it's needed. But, until that happens, they won't do it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post

                Not making any particular point. Just showing that the PASSHE budget has not been cut and has actually gone up.
                For the sake of accuracy, I appreciate your post. I do recall it going up slightly a few years. Your numbers show it came up 5 years. The cuts just happened way before. Interestingly the peak enrollment was what 2010? So they cut the budget before that, but then when things turned bad enrollment wise, didn't raise it at a correspondingly needed rate.

                If we were even funded at the level of the 25th best state system...we'd be fine.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post

                  It would have been uphill, the assumption was that the schools would receive state money, like the other state related schools, but the split would have changed the costly and difficult state regulations with regard to purchasing, HR, contracts, hiring, and more. The advantage the state supported schools have in these areas is pretty significant. Just the prevailing wage law cost the university millions. The gaming of the sometimes unfair funding formulas the state used also ended up costing more than they gained. They have rolled pack some things recently, but not near enough.
                  If it was such a good idea how come no other schools jumped on the Armenti bandwagon? He certainly promoted it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by IUPbigINDIANS View Post

                    The budget has gone up and the revenue has gone way down. Not a good combination.
                    Question is, were are the "extra" $'s going?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                      If it was such a good idea how come no other schools jumped on the Armenti bandwagon? He certainly promoted it.
                      WCU asked to do it, and were eventually denied. The conversation at IUP was about the difficulty in transition, certain administrative jobs are easier if you just do it the way PASSHE tells you. The status quo has alot of inertia. Of course, Armenti's removal for malfeasance didn't help much. I still wonder how much his outspoken stance earned him a more forceful takedown. Of course he still says he's innocent, as does Petit.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
                        I've looked at the approved PA State Budget for the last few years and if I'm reading it right, it doesn't look like the PASSHE budget has been cut over the last 10 years. By year, the PASSHE budget has been:

                        2020 $477.47M (% change from previous year 0%)
                        2019 $477.47M (+2%)
                        2018 $468.108M (+3.3%)
                        2017 $453.108M (+2%)
                        2016 $444.224M (+2.5%)
                        2015 $433.389M (+5%)
                        2014 $412.751M (0%)
                        2013 $412.751M (0%)
                        2012 $412.751M (0%)
                        2011 $412.751M

                        So if I'm right, PASSHE budget has increased 15.7% over the last 10 years with all of that coming in the last six years. Note that during the same time period the PA State budget as a whole decreased by over 5%.
                        It was 477 million in 2009....

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post

                          WCU asked to do it, and were eventually denied. The conversation at IUP was about the difficulty in transition, certain administrative jobs are easier if you just do it the way PASSHE tells you. The status quo has alot of inertia. Of course, Armenti's removal for malfeasance didn't help much. I still wonder how much his outspoken stance earned him a more forceful takedown. Of course he still says he's innocent, as does Petit.
                          I think you are conflating 2 different things. As I recall, Armenti's push for breaking from the state system was around 2008-09 and focused on privatization. West Chester's secession idea was about 5 or 6 years later and focused on disassociating itself from PASSHE (and the rest of the schools). The idea surfaced at WCU only when they found themselves gaining enrollment.

                          Publicly anyway, Armenti was a lone wolf promoting his plan and it mostly just was centered on Cal U since it was his job to save the school and his background was in private universities.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                            We will never know whether some PASSHE schools could have made it as a private institution. Most people thought that would have been an uphill struggle. Not only that, it would have meant abandoning their central mission of providing educational opportunities within reach of all Pennsylvanians.

                            I never thought Armenti was right. Sure, he cast a light on the decreased state subsidy. However, I didn't think the answer was to abandon their state relationship. I thought the answer at the time was to fight for an adequate subsidy from the state. That's a completely different direction.
                            TBH, I think none would survive. If any, only West Chester just because of where its located and its slightly above average academic rankings. Who knows - maybe they would improve as a private university.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post

                              I think you are conflating 2 different things. As I recall, Armenti's push for breaking from the state system was around 2008-09 and focused on privatization. West Chester's secession idea was about 5 or 6 years later and focused on disassociating itself from PASSHE (and the rest of the schools). The idea surfaced at WCU only when they found themselves gaining enrollment.

                              Publicly anyway, Armenti was a lone wolf promoting his plan and it mostly just was centered on Cal U since it was his job to save the school and his background was in private universities.
                              Perhaps, but I always saw the two things as reactions to the same problem. of course, WCUs plan was more practical, and had a number of schools seriously looking at their options.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ironmaniup View Post

                                WCU asked to do it, and were eventually denied. The conversation at IUP was about the difficulty in transition, certain administrative jobs are easier if you just do it the way PASSHE tells you. The status quo has alot of inertia. Of course, Armenti's removal for malfeasance didn't help much. I still wonder how much his outspoken stance earned him a more forceful takedown. Of course he still says he's innocent, as does Petit.
                                I don't believe anyone other than West Chester has ever openly talked about leaving the system. From what I've been told, the fight wasn't coming from the administration or a groundswell of alumni and community support. Merely some inspired alumni in the community who were able to push their idea further than many were comfortable taking it at that point.

                                Armenti's spiel was that the gradual eroding of the state's share of their budgets meant that at some point the schools were going to get nothing but still be under state control. Armenti was let go because he unapologetically mortgaged the future on strategically nebulous projects: a parking garage, a D1-looking basketball arena, and an NFL pipeline championship football program. Its my understanding that he starved all other men's athletic programs to benefit football, pumped millions in unrestricted funds into football, then entered into binding agreements on the convocation center project. All of this happened while enrollment was hitting its peak so he probably also falsely associated the enrollment increase with the athletics spending. Don't get me wrong - he did bring Cal back from the brink of collapse. There was good talk of Cal closing back in the late 80s, early 90s. His ego probably got in the way. Or maybe it was the football track suit.

                                Comment

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