PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

Anything other than some form of Western Pennsylvania University and Eastern Pennsylvania University is pointless. Very few schools go through wholesale name changes. The most recent is probably Tri-State University in Indiana becoming Trine University in 2008. In PA, probably Beaver College becoming Arcadia in 2001. A new name that doesn't sound like a large public university will only exacerbate the problem.

[boatcapt]

Anything other than some form of Western Pennsylvania University and Eastern Pennsylvania University is pointless. Very few schools go through wholesale name changes. The most recent is probably Tri-State University in Indiana becoming Trine University in 2008. In PA, probably Beaver College becoming Arcadia in 2001. A new name that doesn't sound like a large public university will only exacerbate the problem.

Soooo...Name changes are back on the table??

[Fightingscot82]

Soooo...Name changes are back on the table??

Yes that course was reversed. There will be an overarching name change with each campus retaining its identity. So XYZ - Edinboro, XYZ - Clarion, etc. I assume the same is the case for the eastern triad.

[iupgroundhog]

Yes that course was reversed. There will be an overarching name change with each campus retaining its identity. So XYZ - Edinboro, XYZ - Clarion, etc. I assume the same is the case for the eastern triad.

I would conjecture that in the parlance of sports that would allow for continuing to refer to the schools with just their town name, i.e. Edinboro, Clarion, etc.

Of course, that all hinges on the NCAA decision to allow each school to field its own athletics program which I believe is a touch and go proposition right now.

[Fightingscot82]

I would conjecture that in the parlance of sports that would allow for continuing to refer to the schools with just their town name, i.e. Edinboro, Clarion, etc.

Of course, that all hinges on the NCAA decision to allow each school to field its own athletics program which I believe is a touch and go proposition right now.

Correct. Athletics will absolutely be considered. There is a high profile head coach on the task force focused on naming & marketing.

[ironmaniup]

See question above. What I'm asking is whether IUP can lower their costs of attendance and gain enrollment as a result. For example, based on the info above, if they decreased costs by ~10% and it resulted in a 10% enrollment increase they would be at the same place. If it resulted in more than 10% they would be better off. So, it would seem that they have room to cut costs. Then we would know if price sensitivity is the cause of dropping enrollment.

It could, but its a risk. If the cost goes down, but the students don't show, then things get worse. Driscoll is a very risk averse administrator. Certainly it would be a few years to get past the required student numbers. Originally, there was a plan to give free credits to students that received higher grades, but that never materialized. Also, the thought was students would spread out credits over summer or over 5 years- that didn't happen. Last, if you fail courses, it costs you a lot more to graduate. Imagine each failed course costing $1000. The thought was that this would be more fair, that good students shouldn't subsidize the weak students. All it did was encourage weaker students to transfer and pay someone else for their 3rd try at Calc I .and sent the good students to a cheaper university. The foundation did the same wrongheaded thing. When they got underwater on the costs of the new dorms, they compensated by raising costs, and requiring Freshman to live in them. The obvious result was to loose even more students.

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Yes that course was reversed. There will be an overarching name change with each campus retaining its identity. So XYZ - Edinboro, XYZ - Clarion, etc. I assume the same is the case for the eastern triad.

So they will essentially sound like branch campuses. I'm not a fan of that decision.

[iupgroundhog]

Correct. Athletics will absolutely be considered. There is a high profile head coach on the task force focused on naming & marketing.

I hope you can give us as much info and perspective as possible, realizing you can't compromise your position.

Frankly, what is about to transpire over the next couple of years is fascinating. This deal, without exaggeration, is epic.

The reality is that nobody can predict how students will react to the two mergers.

Will it "save" the institutions, or will it provide a more flexible framework to preside over the schools' slow demise?

Will it provide an infusion of energy that foments their resurgence? I think that's not likely.

My personal thinking is that the NE integration has a far better chance of succeeding. I think the NE group will be able to offer a strong combination of academic offerings, residential setting, at a reasonable cost. I think the NE group will strengthen its collective presence in that region. There's not that much competition. It covers a geographically contiguous area that has a lot of homogeneity in terms of the local economies, so I think the focus on workforce development has a chance to really work well. The other advantage that I see for the NE is that I anticipate they will be able to compete favorably for students from SEPA. That's big because that's where most of the students are and that is where the growth is.

As for the Western group, to use a football reference, I'd compare it to punting. Give up on your offensive drive and hope for better field position.

The mix of schools is haphazard. The focus on online classes, I think, portends a reduction to already low residential occupancy. I think each of the Western triad schools footprint will be smaller as this evolves.

I am basically going to pop some popcorn and sit back and watch what happens. There is no roadmap for any of this.

[Fightingscot82]

Yesterday's activities were really just understanding the common elements of the schools. Outside of geography, they have a lot of the same characteristics: similar history, similar academic programs, similar financial challenges, etc. Students have historically come from working class communities and rural areas. Cost and location are primary drivers. Someone from East Brady chooses Clarion because they can afford it and its close. If Clarion closes, they're not going to pivot to Slippery Rock or IUP just because they're the next cheap option. They'll most likely just stop attending. This plan requires schools that have never been innovative to do just that and explore into the uncomfortable unknown. I don't know if they're up for that.

In all honesty, and most Edinboro people who lurk on here know my identity so if I'm out of turn they'll tell me, I think the three schools are ripe for academic partnership. Collaborate on degrees. Have open registration to a degree. Obviously nobody is going to drive to Edinboro one day and Clarion the other. But if they're a business major at Cal and the course they need has openings at Clarion or Edinboro they can take it. All three schools have strong graduate level programs in speech & hearing. Edinboro and Clarion already collaborate on a joint DNP program. Merge the libraries and find ways to thrive with an online library system. But traditional age students will continue to reject online programs and research already shows that we learn and retain less from online learning compared to classroom learning. But none of these things were Edinboro's problem. Edinboro didn't do a good job of recruiting students, keeping them there, and graduating them. They also didn't get creative on how to improve revenue such as charging less for OH & NY students or dropping housing fees to improve residency.

I'm pretty upset about Edinboro's situation if you can't tell. I'd be okay with Slippery Rock taking over certain areas at Edinboro until they improve. Obviously Slippery Rock is doing some things better. If the system is as iron-clad as some want us to believe, force Slippery Rock & West Chester to help the others. I'm not convinced the best possible name & marketing plan will be enough to overcome years of auto-pilot management and demographic shifts.

[IUPNation]

It could, but its a risk. If the cost goes down, but the students don't show, then things get worse. Driscoll is a very risk averse administrator. Certainly it would be a few years to get past the required student numbers. Originally, there was a plan to give free credits to students that received higher grades, but that never materialized. Also, the thought was students would spread out credits over summer or over 5 years- that didn't happen. Last, if you fail courses, it costs you a lot more to graduate. Imagine each failed course costing $1000. The thought was that this would be more fair, that good students shouldn't subsidize the weak students. All it did was encourage weaker students to transfer and pay someone else for their 3rd try at Calc I .and sent the good students to a cheaper university. The foundation did the same wrongheaded thing. When they got underwater on the costs of the new dorms, they compensated by raising costs, and requiring Freshman to live in them. The obvious result was to loose even more students.

Since when are Freshmen not required to live on campus?

[Fightingscot82]

It could, but its a risk. If the cost goes down, but the students don't show, then things get worse. Driscoll is a very risk averse administrator. Certainly it would be a few years to get past the required student numbers. Originally, there was a plan to give free credits to students that received higher grades, but that never materialized. Also, the thought was students would spread out credits over summer or over 5 years- that didn't happen. Last, if you fail courses, it costs you a lot more to graduate. Imagine each failed course costing $1000. The thought was that this would be more fair, that good students shouldn't subsidize the weak students. All it did was encourage weaker students to transfer and pay someone else for their 3rd try at Calc I .and sent the good students to a cheaper university. The foundation did the same wrongheaded thing. When they got underwater on the costs of the new dorms, they compensated by raising costs, and requiring Freshman to live in them. The obvious result was to loose even more students.

I think you're thinking of requiring sophomores to live in them. The financial need may have driven it - but it has been a LONG practice of private schools. There are still some (Allegheny College comes to mind) that require you to live in university housing the entire time.

[ironmaniup]

I think you're thinking of requiring sophomores to live in them. The financial need may have driven it - but it has been a LONG practice of private schools. There are still some (Allegheny College comes to mind) that require you to live in university housing the entire time.

Sophomores, yes, but also, before the new dorms, the rule for Freshman at IUP was pretty loose. The problem was insisting on the change while raising the cost so significantly. Suddenly someone who planned a reduction in cost in year 2 can't count on it anymore. Then add to that the overpriced food service required when living on campus.

[IUPNation]

Sophomores, yes, but also, before the new dorms, the rule for Freshman at IUP was pretty loose. The problem was insisting on the change while raising the cost so significantly. Suddenly someone who planned a reduction in cost in year 2 can't count on it anymore. Then add to that the overpriced food service required when living on campus.

I had a full meal plan all four years. No way was I cooking...

[IUPbigINDIANS]

Anything other than some form of Western Pennsylvania University and Eastern Pennsylvania University is pointless. Very few schools go through wholesale name changes. The most recent is probably Tri-State University in Indiana becoming Trine University in 2008. In PA, probably Beaver College becoming Arcadia in 2001. A new name that doesn't sound like a large public university will only exacerbate the problem.

Of course Tri-State got so much money gifted they changed the name of the school. Excellent academic school.

Angola, Indiana. Quite a little town.

[Bart]

The survey for name change in the east is on.

"The survey offers respondents three name choices for the new merged universities: - Bloomsburg University Group of Pennsylvania - Northeast University of Pennsylvania - Commonwealth University of Pennsylvania The survey wants to know which name makes respondents feel proud."