PASSHE Institutions Merging

[complaint_hopeful]

Good point. Why can't there be a statement from the NCAA or PASSHE as reassurance?

I think because it's still up-in-the-air. ie It's not 100% settled that the NCAA will approve this. Actually, with all the unknowns...how could the NCAA approve it?

[Fightingscot82]

Is Pitt set up identical? Like 1 budget for all campuses? 1 Fin Aid Dept? 1 Admissions? 1 Athletic Dept? <-- I think those are the things that will come into play here.

Why do you say that? Other than the annual handout and guaranteed spots on their boards, the Commonwealth has absolutely no control of how Pitt or Penn State operate? It is my understanding that the campuses get to collect their tuition and fees but there is also supplemental money from the mothership. Unsure of what happens at the end of the year with surplus funds. Obviously the mothership plugs any budget holes as possible. Local budget is approved by mothership leadership but from there all offices are under local control. There is some dotted line oversight from State College and Oakland down to the local campuses for consistency sake but the Pitt Johnstown financial aid office reports to wherever it falls on the Pitt Johnstown org chart.

Pitt did draw down its failing Titusville campus to "outreach center" status and placed it under the control of Pitt-Bradford 70 miles away.

Penn State operates an athletic conference (the Pennsylvania State University Athletic Conference) solely for 14 of its campuses with three full-time employees and a faculty teaching load reduction for a FAR. Yet we're arguing public waste for a Director of Multicultural Student Programming.

[complaint_hopeful]

Why do you say that? Other than the annual handout and guaranteed spots on their boards, the Commonwealth has absolutely no control of how Pitt or Penn State operate? It is my understanding that the campuses get to collect their tuition and fees but there is also supplemental money from the mothership. Unsure of what happens at the end of the year with surplus funds. Obviously the mothership plugs any budget holes as possible. Local budget is approved by mothership leadership but from there all offices are under local control. There is some dotted line oversight from State College and Oakland down to the local campuses for consistency sake but the Pitt Johnstown financial aid office reports to wherever it falls on the Pitt Johnstown org chart.

Pitt did draw down its failing Titusville campus to "outreach center" status and placed it under the control of Pitt-Bradford 70 miles away.

Penn State operates an athletic conference (the Pennsylvania State University Athletic Conference) solely for 14 of its campuses with three full-time employees and a faculty teaching load reduction for a FAR. Yet we're arguing public waste for a Director of Multicultural Student Programming.

It would seem those schools competing with each other would be different. Because while all Pitt in name...they have aspects of individual entities. These new Triads won't have that individuality.

We'll see how it plays out. I could see the ncaa ruling going either way. No sense losing sleep over this until that ruling comes.

As I understand it, there's still a lot to be worked out with academics/program array. And to go live Aug 22...that stuff needs to start to happen and be worked out by live Dec. Maybe sooner to market it.

My prediction is that they finally realize they have a major issue with some of this stuff and pump the brakes on some of it. Just an opinion.

[iupgroundhog]

Pitt did draw down its failing Titusville campus to "outreach center" status and placed it under the control of Pitt-Bradford 70 miles away.

We're going to call it an Outreach Center. But it will be a powerhouse Outreach Center.

[Cavalier 1]

I think because it's still up-in-the-air. ie It's not 100% settled that the NCAA will approve this. Actually, with all the unknowns...how could the NCAA approve it?

Great point. With Compliance being a key issue, how would all of that work? Maybe PASSHE is just using the NCAA as a means by which to make the decision for them that they may really want, which may be just making the triad in the east and west just one institution with branch campuses.

[Fightingscot82]

Great point. With Compliance being a key issue, how would all of that work? Maybe PASSHE is just using the NCAA as a means by which to make the decision for them that they may really want, which may be just making the triad in the east and west just one institution with branch campuses.

I don't see the NCAA denying it. There is precedent for one university operating multiple NCAA departments among its non-autonomous campuses - Southern Illinois, Long Island (formerly), and Fairleigh Dickinson come to mind. I think what gets this shut down is that the people with true power and influence - BOG members and PA legislators - read the details. Unfortunately I doubt they will. The 30 second description sounds responsible and an uncomfortable necessary decision. The other 400 pages line up like an OANN election fraud story.

[Fightingscot82]

"PASSHE plan diminishes IUP's prospects"
https://www.indianagazette.com/opini...ea2330ad7.html

[complaint_hopeful]

I don't see the NCAA denying it. There is precedent for one university operating multiple NCAA departments among its non-autonomous campuses - Southern Illinois, Long Island (formerly), and Fairleigh Dickinson come to mind. I think what gets this shut down is that the people with true power and influence - BOG members and PA legislators - read the details. Unfortunately I doubt they will. The 30 second description sounds responsible and an uncomfortable necessary decision. The other 400 pages line up like an OANN election fraud story.

I think ultimately it can get worked through, but I think the NCAA will want some delineation. Like each campus has separate fin aid depts, etc. Things like that.

Great point on the whole report. It's spun as necessary and wow look at the positives. Well, we've discussed at length about the enrollment projects likely not being accurate.

Heck - What if the schools lose 1 to 20% enrollment BEFORE the Integration due to the bad press. Wouldn't that negate some of the report? <-- This might not be that far fetched either.

[complaint_hopeful]

"PASSHE plan diminishes IUP's prospects"
https://www.indianagazette.com/opini...ea2330ad7.html

Fear our PASSHE Mega Universities. 1st IUP. Next West Chester. Then we'll be ready to take out Pitt and Penn States enrollment!

All your base are belong to us!

In all seriousness, IF IUP can't pluck a bunch of potential Triad students away from these schools with all this negative press and uncertainty...they were going to decline anyways!

[iupgroundhog]

"PASSHE plan diminishes IUP's prospects"
https://www.indianagazette.com/opini...ea2330ad7.html

I don't think that is true. It's not clear what kind of direct effect the western triad (and actually the NE triad) will have on IUP. Most prognoses for the triads are negative, so in that regard you'd have to think IUP (and SRU) will derive competitive benefits from it.

I agree with the writer as far as how PA could do a better job attracting out-of-state students but there are limits to that, even if you lure them with tuition inducements. I also agree that IUP has sort of a landlocked geography issue but the triads don't change that. If anything, the arrival of these triads on both sides of IUP allows IUP to promote itself as an outstanding midsized residential setting. Get back to that because that is what it has always been.

I think the big thing for IUP going into the future is a focus on specific programs and quality. Where I see it going is that it might even get smaller but it will offer quality, in-demand programs and that is not a bad recipe for survival in the current environment.

[Fightingscot82]

I don't think that is true. It's not clear what kind of direct effect the western triad (and actually the NE triad) will have on IUP. Most prognoses for the triads are negative, so in that regard you'd have to think IUP (and SRU) will derive competitive benefits from it.

I agree with the writer as far as how PA could do a better job attracting out-of-state students but there are limits to that, even if you lure them with tuition inducements. I also agree that IUP has sort of a landlocked geography issue but the triads don't change that. If anything, the arrival of these triads on both sides of IUP allows IUP to promote itself as an outstanding midsized residential setting. Get back to that because that is what it has always been.

I think the big thing for IUP going into the future is a focus on specific programs and quality. Where I see it going is that it might even get smaller but it will offer quality, in-demand programs and that is not a bad recipe for survival in the current environment.

I agree. There are a few things that will make it difficult:

1. It can take too long to crank out new programs. Often they release plans and don't start taking new students for another 12-18 months. I don't know what the remedy is, though.

2. IUP has to aggressively recruit new students. They're very good at processing applications. But converting accepts to deposits not so much. IUP will need to start actively selling their value proposition over the small privates & state-related outlet stores.

3. IUP has to make a play for out of state students. Our bordering states are somewhat in the same position as PA but we can't afford to ignore out of state. The standard rate should be lowered to 125% of in-state tuition. Plus out of state students helps fill the housing vacancy issue.

Really, these could apply to anyone.

[iupgroundhog]

I agree. There are a few things that will make it difficult:

1. It can take too long to crank out new programs. Often they release plans and don't start taking new students for another 12-18 months. I don't know what the remedy is, though.

2. IUP has to aggressively recruit new students. They're very good at processing applications. But converting accepts to deposits not so much. IUP will need to start actively selling their value proposition over the small privates & state-related outlet stores.

3. IUP has to make a play for out of state students. Our bordering states are somewhat in the same position as PA but we can't afford to ignore out of state. The standard rate should be lowered to 125% of in-state tuition. Plus out of state students helps fill the housing vacancy issue.

Agreed but in terms of the programs, the "Reimagining" concept focuses on the currently successful programs. Call it streamlining, or whatever, but IUP has taken the lead in moving in that direction. In doing so, they have a lot more programs to start with so they still end up with more quality programs. . So, I am sold on that idea as a way to become stronger, overall. Plus, they are now gearing up to offer new programs based on future demand. I realize it takes time to develop new programs but IUP seems to have a system for doing that right now.

[Fightingscot82]

Agreed but in terms of the programs, the "Reimagining" concept focuses on the currently successful programs. Call it streamlining, or whatever, but IUP has taken the lead in moving in that direction. In doing so, they have a lot more programs to start with so they still end up with more quality programs. . So, I am sold on that idea as a way to become stronger, overall. Plus, they are now gearing up to offer new programs based on future demand. I realize it takes time to develop new programs but IUP seems to have a system for doing that right now.

They've got to follow the system-wide faculty contract and the system policy. Locally they do the work to create the course sequence, research job prospects, and estimate cost analysis then get approvals from both the local COT and the system BOG. It takes too long. Hopefully that's something that can be remedied in the next contract.

[ctrabs74]

For those asking about how a merged triad affects NCAA statuses, a pair of D3 schools in Vermont - Johnson State and Lyndon State - merged their administrations into Northern Vermont University, but both the two campuses (NVU-Johnson and NVU-Lyndon) are still separate athletic programs in the North Atlantic Conference. So, there's that precedent.

Conversely, Purdue Northwest (GLIAC) was created out of a merger between a pair of Purdue campuses - Calumet (Hammond) and North Central (Westville) - while becoming a D2 member a few years ago. PNW plays most of their games in Hammond, though a few basketball games (in 2019-2020) were played in Westville. This is essentially the same thing with what used to be LIU-Post (nee CW Post) before their D2 athletic program was merged into the D1 LIU-Brooklyn campus a couple of years ago. As I recall, basketball is hosted in Brooklyn while football, baseball and other sports are played in Brookville.

I think the future of the affected PASSHE schools' NCAA status will depend on what PASSHE finally decides.

[iupgroundhog]

For those asking about how a merged triad affects NCAA statuses, a pair of D3 schools in Vermont - Johnson State and Lyndon State - merged their administrations into Northern Vermont University, but both the two campuses (NVU-Johnson and NVU-Lyndon) are still separate athletic programs in the North Atlantic Conference. So, there's that precedent.

Conversely, Purdue Northwest (GLIAC) was created out of a merger between a pair of Purdue campuses - Calumet (Hammond) and North Central (Westville) - while becoming a D2 member a few years ago. PNW plays most of their games in Hammond, though a few basketball games (in 2019-2020) were played in Westville. This is essentially the same thing with what used to be LIU-Post (nee CW Post) before their D2 athletic program was merged into the D1 LIU-Brooklyn campus a couple of years ago. As I recall, basketball is hosted in Brooklyn while football, baseball and other sports are played in Brookville.

I think the future of the affected PASSHE schools' NCAA status will depend on what PASSHE finally decides.

I guess the concerns about the sports programs are unwarranted..