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  • Originally posted by only1 View Post
    Money.com (formerly Money Magazine) came out with the college ratings for 2022. Some consider these the most accurate ratings as it pertains to cost and ROI. They only rank the top 623 schools. Passhe has 5:
    West Chester - 228
    SRU - 410
    Bloomsburg - 453
    Millersville - 569
    Kutztown - 573

    Interestingly enough:
    PSU Main - 485
    Duquesne - 446
    Kent State - 568
    Pitt - 354
    WVU - 520
    Bowling Green - 576

    This is out of nearly 3,000 colleges across the USA.

    https://money.com/best-colleges/

    I guess my point is this - there is so much bashing within our state about the PASSHE System that it is like a whining facebook site. The truth is there was/is and will be good value in the system. All I hear about is student loans and repayment/forgiveness. What parents ought to do is sit their kids down and have a hard discussion about the cost of education and ROI. Passhe is very defendable in this regard.
    Full disclosure - I am a 1987 SRU grad.
    ROI for PASSHE versus most other schools is very good. Gallup research found that it doesn't matter WHERE we go to college as much as WHAT we do at college. A very engaged Slippery Rock student is more likely to be a successful accountant than someone who merely checked off the to-do list at Penn State University Park.

    I always compare PASSHE to Aldi. Some only attend because of proximity or its all they can afford. Some will never attend because they are willing to overpay for status. The bulk of the state really doesn't take the time to understand what we've got.

    I don't think there's an adequate ranking that's objective enough to make up for enrollment differences. These rankings still use graduation rate, a very flawed stat that isn't what it appears to be at face value. Anything that uses a peer survey, admit rate, retention rate, and graduation rate doesn't really consider the actual outcomes of an education at any one school. Even earning potential can be flawed - earnings aren't always tied to one's job. Would a 26 year old trust fund kid be reporting total income or only that comes from his BA degree in painting? Some careers have a lot of freelancing - or one can be achieving one's career goals in something like music performance and not make a lot of money. All these measures are so subjective.
    Last edited by Fightingscot82; 05-23-2022, 12:22 PM.

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    • https://www.goerie.com/story/opinion...a/65357510007/

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      • Originally posted by EastStroud13 View Post

        The only way to fix this is election reform. Winner-take-all is what leads to polarization. Realistically, Lamb and Fetterman should be members of different parties, one representing the center and one representing the left. But the hard turn of the GOP to the far right has forced the Democratic Party into an absurdly large coalition where nobody can really represent everyone.

        I think this is by design by the center wing of the Democratic Party. They are betting that a wider tent gives them more potential support for the candidates that they want, like Lamb. This would allow them to stay in power without having to make any hard stances. I think this is a miscalculation, people are unhappy and want firm action. This is why Lamb got crushed in the election, even though he collected all the endorsements. People see the GOP willing to go to war, and they want their politicians to be able to do the same.

        If the Democratic Party really wanted to kill the far-right's chances of holding power, they would be pushing election reform to ranked choice as their #1 issue. They have been remarkably silent about it. I think that speaks volumes about their priorities.

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        • Good for this guy. He appears to get it. Only hope he can get through to some of the dolts we have in the midstate.

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          • Plus, his positions will moderate even further in the coming months. He's not just seeking Democrats' votes, he's also campaigning for Independents and Republican votes. There is a big difference between Fetterman, and, say, AOC. I believe Fetterman has an ability to communicate with Pennsylvanians from a lot of points on the political spectrum.

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            • Support PASSHE.....I see momentum growing. Also, much more sustainable that cancelation of $10,000 in student loan debt. Support would lower costs.
              https://www.timesleader.com/opinion/...is-good-for-pa

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              • 1 in 3 holders of federal student loans owe less than $10k. A lot of these people have loan debt but didn't finish. Only 7% have more than $100k. It sounds trite but $10k would have the greatest impact with the lowest financial cost. DC can't do anything about private student loans.

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                • Yes. Understood. Having said that, what happens to the students that borrow this year or the year after that? Those that repaid the loans already or a great deal during the pandemic when the loans were/are still interest free and jobs were plentiful? Are their loans forgiven because they made the decision to sign for a loan next year? Lower the cost and supporting public higher education reduces the long term reliance on loans. Where are the parents that allow the kids to sign for loans with out exploring community colleges, company jobs that reimburse tuition(Starbucks, Disney and so on)? The forgiveness is a quick short term fix that gives the president a boost. Fix the problem by lowering costs.

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                  • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                    ROI for PASSHE versus most other schools is very good. Gallup research found that it doesn't matter WHERE we go to college as much as WHAT we do at college. A very engaged Slippery Rock student is more likely to be a successful accountant than someone who merely checked off the to-do list at Penn State University Park.

                    I always compare PASSHE to Aldi. Some only attend because of proximity or its all they can afford. Some will never attend because they are willing to overpay for status. The bulk of the state really doesn't take the time to understand what we've got.

                    I don't think there's an adequate ranking that's objective enough to make up for enrollment differences. These rankings still use graduation rate, a very flawed stat that isn't what it appears to be at face value. Anything that uses a peer survey, admit rate, retention rate, and graduation rate doesn't really consider the actual outcomes of an education at any one school. Even earning potential can be flawed - earnings aren't always tied to one's job. Would a 26 year old trust fund kid be reporting total income or only that comes from his BA degree in painting? Some careers have a lot of freelancing - or one can be achieving one's career goals in something like music performance and not make a lot of money. All these measures are so subjective.
                    That is well said. A college education is largely what you as an individual decide to make of it. I am irritated when the PASSHE schools are constantly referred to as Plan B or fallback schools. That notion is widespread enough that even some of the students actually attending PASSHE schools have a tendency to buy into it.

                    I recall that a young lady who used to sit in English classes with me at Ship eventually became the first female governor in New Hampshire's history and is now a U.S. senator. A guy who used to write for our literary magazine when I was on campus went on to become one of the best-selling authors in the U.S. It appears Plan B worked out pretty well for them.

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                    • State university system considers big change in how it splits up funding
                      https://www.dailyitem.com/news/state...e615a633a.html

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                      • Originally posted by only1 View Post
                        Yes. Understood. Having said that, what happens to the students that borrow this year or the year after that? Those that repaid the loans already or a great deal during the pandemic when the loans were/are still interest free and jobs were plentiful? Are their loans forgiven because they made the decision to sign for a loan next year? Lower the cost and supporting public higher education reduces the long term reliance on loans. Where are the parents that allow the kids to sign for loans with out exploring community colleges, company jobs that reimburse tuition(Starbucks, Disney and so on)? The forgiveness is a quick short term fix that gives the president a boost. Fix the problem by lowering costs.
                        Oh I agree - but it will take a lot of work from legislators to figure out how much funding is needed to keep costs within a certain ballpark, which is what is needed.

                        A big problem of the student loan crisis is that about 15 years ago a repayment option called income-driven repayment started and lot of folks went on that schedule. The problem was that their income didn't keep up with the interest accumulation and now they owe more than the day they started repaying. The bulk are those with some college but no degree, which is basically worthless in many jobs. So we've got to fix the error from the past while also considering how to prevent that error from happening again.

                        A good portion of the $1.6T in student loan debt is the "some college, no degree" as well as those who always borrow enormous sums like lawyers and doctors.

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                        • Originally posted by Ship69 View Post

                          That is well said. A college education is largely what you as an individual decide to make of it. I am irritated when the PASSHE schools are constantly referred to as Plan B or fallback schools. That notion is widespread enough that even some of the students actually attending PASSHE schools have a tendency to buy into it.

                          I recall that a young lady who used to sit in English classes with me at Ship eventually became the first female governor in New Hampshire's history and is now a U.S. senator. A guy who used to write for our literary magazine when I was on campus went on to become one of the best-selling authors in the U.S. It appears Plan B worked out pretty well for them.
                          I feel like every PASSHE school has stories like those. I love hearing them. At Edinboro, a refugee from Cleveland took a soccer & swimming scholarship to Edinboro and turned that into a career with GE and eventually being president of Motorola armed only with a degree from Edinboro. George Lucas just handed over the Star Wars franchise to an Edinboro alumnus, too. Even when we were normal schools, we had success stories like Nelly Bly and Joseph Pew (founded Sunoco & endowed Pew Research).

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                          • Originally posted by only1 View Post
                            Support PASSHE.....I see momentum growing. Also, much more sustainable that cancelation of $10,000 in student loan debt. Support would lower costs.
                            https://www.timesleader.com/opinion/...is-good-for-pa
                            I don't really follow that logic. Debt forgiveness would apply overwhelmingly to debt holders who have completed their education. I see it as a non-factor with regards to impacting current and future PASSHE enrollment.

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                            • Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post

                              Even when we were normal schools, we had success stories like Nelly Bly and Joseph Pew (founded Sunoco & endowed Pew Research).
                              ...and Art Rooney.

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                              • I agree and see these things happening with many ordinary PASSHE students. In complete disclosure, I have 1 kid that graduated from a PASSHE school and had a job before graduating with a Big 4 firm as an analyst and is using her PASSHE education the same as the others from more famous schools(not better) at her firm. Another kid will enter their junior year and is very ambitious(She has changed her major three times though). Decided to major in Business Admin with a minor and Analytics. I think her future will include opportunities based on what effort she puts into her education.

                                I honestly made both kids cry when they were HS Juniors as we explained that the amount of money for college was limited and these (PASSHE, Kent, Cleveland State, Youngstown) are your choices. They said I was a dream crusher. Graduate with a little debt as possible and there are ways. The kid that is a Junior is taking summer courses online at CCAC to catch up with two pre-requisites to save money. Both are now happy with their decisions and both agreed that it doesn't matter where you go as long as the program is accredited and you put work into it. Sorry if it sounds like a bit of a "high horse syndrome" but I am just tired of the bashing of the system as it should be highlighted in a positive manner as it is a nonfancy way to a quality education if you just explore the options.

                                Just want to celebrate what PASSHE is not what it isn't.
                                Last edited by only1; 06-15-2022, 09:18 AM.

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