Originally posted by iupgroundhog
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View PostBack to the tuition freeze. This is good for students...to a point. Its bad for schools especially if the state doesn't come through with more money. Most employees are on union contracts that are structured like teacher salary scales for those familiar. Those employees get two raises a year - the new salary scale on a specific date then also a bump up a "step" on the salary schedule. This is outside of any promotions of sorts like assistant professor to associate professor. The total raise is modest - usually around 3% total - but that's regardless of the campus financial situation - enrollment or state appropriation (these two ~90% of revenue) - that's automatic raises for a lot of employees before other increases in benefits, utilities, and inflation. So one PASSHE school was planning for a $4 million deficit this year is now looking at an $8 million deficit with all the predicted cost increases without a big state appropriation increase.
By tinkering with tuition, there are also two parts to it. One is the hope that not increasing tuition will bring in more students. However, the PA demographics negate that possibility. The other is that by keeping tuition the same (lowering it in real dollars) the schools will be better able to retain the students they have. That is where the PASSHE is at right now. Retaining, not growing.
In the case of IUP. lowering tuition by 20% provides the hope that it will increase enrollment, not necessarily that it will increase revenues. IUP seriously needs to improve enrollment.
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Back to the tuition freeze. This is good for students...to a point. Its bad for schools especially if the state doesn't come through with more money. Most employees are on union contracts that are structured like teacher salary scales for those familiar. Those employees get two raises a year - the new salary scale on a specific date then also a bump up a "step" on the salary schedule. This is outside of any promotions of sorts like assistant professor to associate professor. The total raise is modest - usually around 3% total - but that's regardless of the campus financial situation - enrollment or state appropriation (these two ~90% of revenue) - that's automatic raises for a lot of employees before other increases in benefits, utilities, and inflation. So one PASSHE school was planning for a $4 million deficit this year is now looking at an $8 million deficit with all the predicted cost increases without a big state appropriation increase.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
Again, it's speculative but I think just because "they" are looking to grow athletics does not mean the new reality will allow them to do that.
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
I can tell you that they're looking to grow athletics. This integration forced them to do what D3 schools have done for years - consider the net tuition revenue against program expenses. Its almost always positive.
But you're right - traditional aged students want a vibrant college experience: https://www.insidehighered.com/admis...ensive-college
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
Sure, that's an important factor - or, it has become an important factor. But what CALUPA69's argument seems to say to me is that it's the reason for these programs to exist at all the triad schools except for Bloom and Cal. I don't think that's true. The main reasons the programs exist are historical and necessary just to create a full college campus experience. In essence, even the "revenue" sports are extracurricular activities. There is a lot of significance placed on involvement in these activities while balancing academics and other college life things (see the D2 creed). It's a part of traditional college life in the U.S.
Now, where I see his point and probably agree with him is when you look into the near future. These extracurriculars (not just sports) are going to be slashed and/or eliminated at triad schools. The constituents for each one will have to fight to keep it alive and most will lose.
But you're right - traditional aged students want a vibrant college experience: https://www.insidehighered.com/admis...ensive-college
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Let's not kid ourselves. All programs are enrollment boosters.
Now, where I see his point and probably agree with him is when you look into the near future. These extracurriculars (not just sports) are going to be slashed and/or eliminated at triad schools. The constituents for each one will have to fight to keep it alive and most will lose.
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Originally posted by WarriorVoice View Post
The idea that Penn State branch campuses would have D1 football teams is foolish at best. In fact, some Penn State branch campuses DO have basketball teams, that play in D II. Imagine that...
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Interesting. Thanks for sharing - that conflicts with what folks at PSU told me when I worked there. Then again, those same folks believed Paterno walked on water.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
So I guess this clears the way for any state school with multiple locations to start duplicate athletic programs. Heck, guess it would be OK for Penn State to start football programs at any of it's satelite campuses as a means of increasing enrollment...Let's see, I can play DII football at Edinboro OR D1 at Penn State Behrend. Hummmmm...Which one should I choose?? Maybe Penn State Beaver could use a shot in the enrolement arm? No problem, start a football team and watch enrollment jump!
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Originally posted by Matt Burglund View Post
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Originally posted by Fightingscot82 View Post
Penn State Behrend is D3. The only Penn State outlet store that's explored football was Altoona when it was thriving in the 90s (no longer so) but that was aborted, oddly because Paterno balked at the proposal that included hiring Jerry Sandusky has head coach.
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Originally posted by boatcapt View Post
So I guess this clears the way for any state school with multiple locations to start duplicate athletic programs. Heck, guess it would be OK for Penn State to start football programs at any of it's satelite campuses as a means of increasing enrollment...Let's see, I can play DII football at Edinboro OR D1 at Penn State Behrend. Hummmmm...Which one should I choose?? Maybe Penn State Beaver could use a shot in the enrolement arm? No problem, start a football team and watch enrollment jump!
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Originally posted by CALUPA69 View Post
Both SB and VB are played by all 18 PSAC schools while WR (8) and FH (11) not so much. Doesn't make them less important to the participants or their schools but I was pointing out that the 6 sports most widely played were not really viable in 4 of the 6 branches of the merged institutions. IMO, were it not for NCAA minimum requirements, there really isn't a reason other than schedule filling and enrollment/tuition boosting for these schools to participate in those six sports. Purely personal observation.
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Originally posted by iupgroundhog View Post
It's not. I disagree that all these sports at all these schools are "schedule fillers" and enrollment boosters. I think the long tradition of the student-athlete is alive and well at all of these schools. It's more about participation than what you are saying.
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