PASSHE Institutions Merging

[Fightingscot82]

The interesting thing about covid is that last year enrollment was bad because students were taking a gap year and there wasn't much in person education. Well, shouldn't those gap year kids come back this year and boost enrollment? Also, shouldn't being back in person boost enrollment?

Well enrollment is likely to be down to way down on most campuses supposedly. And yes...I'm sure covid will be used as a main excuse.

It will be interesting to see how enrollment of the triads stacks up to the other PASSHE Schools. Students going to them are essentially going to a college that they don't even know what the name will be and a lot of details. A leap of faith so to speak in some ways.

For me, it's hard to blame covid for enrollment losses for the reasons above. Also, some of these schools have been losing enrollment year over year for nearly a decade. They weren't suddenly going to gain in the past year if not for covid. They're selling a product that's priced too high in the consumers mind for the level of value received. So consumers go elsewhere. And yeah...maybe that's only 6% of consumers a year, but it adds up.

I'm starting to think that the "covid gap year" trend was a myth. A handful of cases that got high profile coverage from major news sources. Just like neighborhood pod schools/classrooms. Nobody did that sh*t.

[ironmaniup]

The interesting thing about covid is that last year enrollment was bad because students were taking a gap year and there wasn't much in person education. Well, shouldn't those gap year kids come back this year and boost enrollment? Also, shouldn't being back in person boost enrollment?

Well enrollment is likely to be down to way down on most campuses supposedly. And yes...I'm sure covid will be used as a main excuse.
.
It will be interesting to see how enrollment of the triads stacks up to the other PASSHE Schools. Students going to them are essentially going to a college that they don't even know what the name will be and a lot of details. A leap of faith so to speak in some ways.

For me, it's hard to blame covid for enrollment losses for the reasons above. Also, some of these schools have been losing enrollment year over year for nearly a decade. They weren't suddenly going to gain in the past year if not for covid. They're selling a product that's priced too high in the consumers mind for the level of value received. So consumers go elsewhere. And yeah...maybe that's only 6% of consumers a year, but it adds up.

With covid, its more about school choice. For instance someone may decide to stay close to home, or choose based on available on-line classes, or maybe go with a CC, or maybe they got a good job. There is a percentage of students that decide to bail on college after their gap year. Covid makes things much less predictable. I think the triads will blame the merger, mostly if enrollment is low, but they may be true or not. but there are alot of factors. of course, If they really understood the drop of enrollment, they would have been able to do more to fix it.

And regardless of the enrollment changes, there will be huge cost cutting measures when the merger is official. It is looking more and more like the merger is just a way to give PASSHE leadership a better position when it comes time to cut - here is an interesting article mentioned on local radio today. - https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

[complaint_hopeful]

The interesting thing about covid is that last year enrollment was bad because students were taking a gap year and there wasn't much in person education. Well, shouldn't those gap year kids come back this year and boost enrollment? Also, shouldn't being back in person boost enrollment?

Well enrollment is likely to be down to way down on most campuses supposedly. And yes...I'm sure covid will be used as a main excuse.

It will be interesting to see how enrollment of the triads stacks up to the other PASSHE Schools. Students going to them are essentially going to a college that they don't even know what the name will be and a lot of details. A leap of faith so to speak in some ways.

For me, it's hard to blame covid for enrollment losses for the reasons above. Also, some of these schools have been losing enrollment year over year for nearly a decade. They weren't suddenly going to gain in the past year if not for covid. They're selling a product that's priced too high in the consumers mind for the level of value received. So consumers go elsewhere. And yeah...maybe that's only 6% of consumers a year, but it adds up.

[ironmaniup]

I just wonder if going through this consolidation process and the bad pr killed passhe. We'll see upcoming enrollment numbers I guess.

[complaint_hopeful]

In the long run, the hub concept is the only resolution that makes sense.

I just wonder if going through this consolidation process and the bad pr killed passhe. We'll see upcoming enrollment numbers I guess.

[complaint_hopeful]

Subsidizing and/or carrying other schools/teams in financial duress is what got the USFL in trouble. LOL . Let's be honest , this is and should be about survival of the fittest. Unfortunately. There's been huge fiscal mismanagement. I think Bloom, Kutz, ESU, WCU, Ship, Cal, Rock, IUP, Shepherd , Ville, should be the PSAC. Seton Hill, Gannon, and Mercyhurst have offered minimal in football. Just my thoughts. It's always been crazy to have 3 Erie Schools in the PSAC. And, it has hurt Edinboro. I'd rather the 10 team PSAC with stronger teams and depth that a MEGA conference just to say we have one.

I don't know. Look at Penn State and their main campus is booming and some of the smaller campuses aren't. But overall they come out ahead.

Maybe PASSHE needs looked at this way?

[complaint_hopeful]

I am increasingly beginning to think that this was a baby step toward consolidation into two or three "directional" universities. It could either leave the "untouchables" of IUP & West Chester freestanding or make them the hubs. I think the way to go is three directionals: east, central, and west. Hard part is finding a hub campus for central. Bloomsburg doesn't really fit that bill well (and no offense to them at all) any more than any other school.

That's a possibility. Ie This is Phase 1.

There's other infrastructure being put in place that's going to let all schools share classes easier. Ie Some of what the triads are doing on a passhe wide scale. <-- This makes a lot of sense to me.

So whether it's 3 schools...or just an entire system that shares and reduces the amount of employees needed...something more is likely coming.

As far as leader of the hub...West Chester makes sense. Not sure IUP does any more. Slippery Rock seems to be the it school. IUP has enrollment struggles like most.

[GregD]

I am increasingly beginning to think that this was a baby step toward consolidation into two or three "directional" universities. It could either leave the "untouchables" of IUP & West Chester freestanding or make them the hubs. I think the way to go is three directionals: east, central, and west. Hard part is finding a hub campus for central. Bloomsburg doesn't really fit that bill well (and no offense to them at all) any more than any other school.

In the long run, the hub concept is the only resolution that makes sense.

[Cavalier 1]

https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

Subsidizing and/or carrying other schools/teams in financial duress is what got the USFL in trouble. LOL . Let's be honest , this is and should be about survival of the fittest. Unfortunately. There's been huge fiscal mismanagement. I think Bloom, Kutz, ESU, WCU, Ship, Cal, Rock, IUP, Shepherd , Ville, should be the PSAC. Seton Hill, Gannon, and Mercyhurst have offered minimal in football. Just my thoughts. It's always been crazy to have 3 Erie Schools in the PSAC. And, it has hurt Edinboro. I'd rather the 10 team PSAC with stronger teams and depth that a MEGA conference just to say we have one.

[Fightingscot82]

Yep. So why do Triads? Why not view PASSHE as 1 entity if its 1 bank account anyways?

I am increasingly beginning to think that this was a baby step toward consolidation into two or three "directional" universities. It could either leave the "untouchables" of IUP & West Chester freestanding or make them the hubs. I think the way to go is three directionals: east, central, and west. Hard part is finding a hub campus for central. Bloomsburg doesn't really fit that bill well (and no offense to them at all) any more than any other school.

[complaint_hopeful]

Yep. So why do Triads? Why not view PASSHE as 1 entity if its 1 bank account anyways?

[iupgroundhog]

https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

That is maybe the most disingenuous part of Greenstein's blather. It's a massive rip-off for Lock Haven. According to Greenstein even though these accounts were maintained separately by institution, technically and legally it's all one account so it doesn't belong to LH even if it exists because of their fiscal management. That's an unbelievable scam.

I credit the publication and author for writing about this but it is also stuff pretty much covered in this thread. They are a little bit removed from our reality. For example, they think the former Hammermill plant in Lock Haven made hammers.

[Bart]

https://www.universityworldnews.com/...21082011023382

[complaint_hopeful]

I feel like PASSHE is at an inflection point for other reasons too. The state begrudgingly gave PASSHE more money for these Integrations. The Integration Plans had very lofty expectations that might be unreachable. Like positive enrollment growth for 5 years, etc. I think there is a general consensus that they're going to have all these cost saving measures, etc.

It's easy to see costs in these Plans, but harder to see savings that cover the costs. And it's really hard to see schools that haven't grown a single year for the last decade...starting to grow. I really feel like when they look at what they spent on these Integrations and the actual savings...that if they calculate the savings based of of what you really pay for things and not list price...that it may cost more than it saves when they do a post mortem on this in the future.

So Greenstein and the board unanimously passed this thing, but I feel like it's going to be heavily scrutinized. Well, there are rumblings that Fall enrollment isn't looking good. There are rumblings that the costs of Integrations are way high. With more costs seemingly being identified as time goes on.

As soon as it starts to become apparent that the conditions in these Integration Plans aren't going to be achieved, it will be interesting to see what the legislature does. Will the go nuclear and try to close schools? Will they force the Chancellor and some President's out? Will they keep dumping money into this? It will be interesting.

Of course, enrollment could rise. They could find cost savings. etc. I'm rooting for that.

[complaint_hopeful]

I'm fairly sure they won't consolidate sports...atleast initially.

Now if the enrollment situation at these schools continues to fail...and Fall is likely to be rough...then who knows what they'll do to cut costs?

When they submit to the ncaa...the ncaa will basically tell them what they need to do to make it work. Then, they'll adjust the structure.